From rob@twcny.rr.com Sat Nov 10 22:27:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rob@twcny.rr.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 11 Nov 2001 06:27:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 57713 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 06:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2001 06:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailout6.nyroc.rr.com) (24.92.226.177) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 06:27:12 -0000 Received: from mail1.twcny.rr.com (mail1-1 [24.92.226.139]) by mailout6.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/Road Runner 1.12) with ESMTP id fAB6RAm07881 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 01:27:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from riff ([24.92.246.4]) by mail1.twcny.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 01:27:09 -0500 Received: from rob by riff with local (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 162o4Q-0001JM-00 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 01:26:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 01:26:17 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] observatives & a construal of lo'e & le'e Message-ID: <20011111012617.A2244@twcny.rr.com> Reply-To: rob@twcny.rr.com References: <23.1435c7a0.291f4869@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23.1435c7a0.291f4869@aol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i X-Is-It-Not-Nifty: www.sluggy.com From: Rob Speer X-Yahoo-Profile: squeekybobo On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:20:09PM -0500, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/10/2001 5:49:39 PM Central Standard Time, > a.rosta@ntlworld.com writes: > > > > Well, yes, you can use a cmene, any cmene, to refer to the generic > > Odyssey. When I said "it is important that Lojbab find a way to > > refer to the generic Odyssey using "cuktrodisi"", what I meant was > > "it is important that Lojbab find an expression that denotes the > > generic Odyssey and uses "cuktrodisi"". "la cuktrodisi" means "that > > which I am calling 'cuktrodisi'/'Odyssey'", not "that which is the > > generic Odyssey". Similarly, "la cinfo" means "that which I am > > > Why? (or rather Why not?) It certainly can mean that, and, indeed, {la > cinfo} seems a wonderflly clear way to say that (well, not "the generic > lion", as I would understand that, but "the prototype lion" as I understand > And's view). You want {la} to mean "the prototype"? Recall that most people want to use Lojban not for talking about Lojban, but for talking about other things. {la cinfo} means "that which is named Lion", and it may very well not be a lion. You'll just have to deal with the fact that names don't fit anywhere into logic. If my name were Bob Dole, I would be {la bab.dol.} but I would not be the prototypical Bob Dole, and I would very much resent your effort to make my name not refer to me anymore. -- la rab.spir noi na'e me la bab.dol