From pycyn@aol.com Mon Nov 12 15:31:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 12 Nov 2001 23:31:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 74471 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 23:31:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2001 23:31:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.5) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 23:31:36 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id r.16e.3cdb469 (3983) for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:31:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <16e.3cdb469.2921b5ce@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:31:26 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] "generic Odysseys" To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_16e.3cdb469.2921b5ce_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10535 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_16e.3cdb469.2921b5ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/2001 11:08:14 AM Central Standard Time, jcowan@reutershealth.com writes: > Poems don't have corporate authors. They may very well draw on > a large stock of traditional expressions, but that doesn't mean > that one person didn't write the whole thing. > > I am willing to suppose that a different person wrote each, because > we have no other evidence of anyone writing more than one full-dress > epic right up through modern times. > Well, I think there are a goodly number of pieces that have to be given corporate authorship -- great swathes of the Bible, for example. This is more than just using rtaditional bits and pieces and more than just revising and editing though it has aspects of each of these. To be sure, someone wrote the mess down eventually and perhaps put the final touches on that version, but he was not the author, nor was any other one person -- each contributed a bit (and many detracted bits as well) but no one did it all or, probably, the majority of it. Unlike the case of most of Shakespeare (or whoever -- if we know more about him than any other poet of his place and time --more than Spenser who had a long public career? more than the ones with University degrees and papers filed away?-- than we know damn-all about any of them). <> and largely feminine in the latter case. Evidence?> Tends to start with internals -- the vivid domestic scenes not found in other epics -- and then to build externally. The first formal work is some Samuel Butler or other's (I can't keep 'em straight over three centuries) Authoress of the Odyssey. Robert Graves did a novel Homer's Daughters on the subject, with his usual long afternote. And someone from Cape Town (no handy references -- Benjamin Farrington?) did a thorough modern (mine, not even yours) study. I suspect there are newer ones by feminist theorists --part1_16e.3cdb469.2921b5ce_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/2001 11:08:14 AM Central Standard Time, jcowan@reutershealth.com writes:


Poems don't have corporate authors.  They may very well draw on
a large stock of traditional expressions, but that doesn't mean
that one person didn't write the whole thing.

I am willing to suppose that a different person wrote each, because
we have no other evidence of anyone writing more than one full-dress
epic right up through modern times.


Well, I think there are a goodly number of pieces that have to be given corporate authorship  -- great swathes of the Bible, for example.  This is more than just using rtaditional bits and pieces and more than just revising and editing though it has aspects of each of these.  To be sure, someone wrote the mess down eventually and perhaps put the final touches on that version, but he was not the author, nor was any other one person -- each contributed a bit (and many detracted bits as well) but no one did it all or, probably, the majority of it. Unlike the case of most of Shakespeare (or whoever -- if we know more about him than any other poet of his place and time  --more than Spenser who had a long public career? more than the ones with University degrees and papers filed away?-- than we know damn-all about any of them).

<> and largely feminine in the latter case.


Evidence?>

Tends to start with internals  -- the vivid domestic scenes not found in other epics -- and then to build externally.  The first formal work is some Samuel Butler or other's (I can't keep 'em straight over three centuries) Authoress of the Odyssey.  Robert Graves did a novel Homer's Daughters on the subject, with his usual long afternote.  And someone from Cape Town (no handy references -- Benjamin Farrington?) did a thorough modern (mine, not even yours) study.  I suspect there are newer ones by feminist theorists
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