From jay.kominek@colorado.edu Tue Nov 13 07:59:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: kominek@ucsub.colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 13 Nov 2001 15:59:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 35989 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 15:59:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2001 15:59:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ucsub.colorado.edu) (128.138.129.12) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 15:59:29 -0000 Received: from ucsub.colorado.edu (kominek@ucsub.colorado.edu [128.138.129.12]) by ucsub.colorado.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2/ITS-5.0/student) with ESMTP id fADFxS710383 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:59:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:59:28 -0700 (MST) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [lojban] Why is there so much irregularity in cmavo/gismu? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE From: Jay Kominek X-Yahoo-Profile: jfkominek On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Craig wrote: > The gismu are fine. It's the rafsi that need work. And while we're at it, > can we get rid of selma'o? They are very misleading. the place structure = of > selma'o is x2 is the grammatical class containing particle x1 - meaning > that by calling them both UI we put xu and .ui in the same grammar class. > they play extremely different roles. .ui expresses a feeling. xu makes > questions. Sounds the same to me! Can you construct a sentence where replacing a .ui with xu makes it _grammatically_ incorrect? Can you construct a sentence where replacing a xu with .ui makes it _grammatically_ incorrect? If the answer to both of these is "no", then they are in the same grammatical catagory no matter how much you want to complain about it. se cmavo are only a grammatical distinctions, and indicate very little about semantic function. Oh, and I seem to rememeber you using 'xu' and '.ui' the last time this came up. Is 'xu' being in UI the only thing that bothers you about se cmavo? If you want to junk something, I'd hope there is at least more than one instance of it annoying you. And one more thing, if you're going to replace se cmavo, what are you going to put in its place? Or will all the words be in the same class, and if we want to refer to ca, pu and bu, we've got to say "those time tense cmavo"? - Jay Kominek Plus =C3=A7a change, plus c'est la m=C3=AAme chose