Subject: Re: [lojban] presentation of lojban

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:27:15 EST

In a message dated 11/24/2001 12:26:19 AM Central Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> Did it have any novels written originally in Esperanto, or just translations
> (cf laopi pelxu ku'o trajynobli)?
> 
Yes. Does Lojban?

<Did it have a significant body of poetry

> (cf ziryroi)?>

Well, "significant" is tricky; there was quite a bit, both original and 
translation and some of it even pretty good, as 19th century poetry goes.

<Did it have its own aphorisms?>
Not quite sure what this means, but in the the loosest sense, yes.

<Did it have its own music (cf

> http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?Lojban%20Rock%20Lyrics)?>
If all you need is lyrics, certainly yes -- most hits were translated and 
there were some original songs (not counting even the anthems) and even the 
odd oper(ett)a and choral church work.
 
<Did it have
> any practical applications aside from as an interlanguage (Lojban has
> several, and I hear that one has even been proposed)? >

No, but unlike Lojban, it didn't plan any (and Lojban was, of course, not 
planned for interlinguistics). Esperanto has had some linguistic uses since: 
studies of the creolization of designed languages, the development of 
dialects, and the like.

<Did it have any
> linguistic thought put into it, or just a random guy making up root words
> (And tinkit, you'd better not show up to harass us with any snide comments
> about this zo'ocai)?>

Well, there was the synthesis of the grammar (so-called, anyhow) and the 
comaprative work involved in the not quite random establishment of the roots 
and the affixes. 

> id anyone speak it outside of the (formerly
> Volapükist) language clubs (cf Logfest [with the jboste and the wiki asthe
> 

Yes. The clubs were the starting point but it quickly spread to quite 
independent Esperanto clubs and to unafiliated people (the first person to 
confront Zamenhof speaking Esperanto was not a club member).

This is not to praise Esperanto, which is only an SAE code and thus a snare, 
but to point out that we are not nearly so wonderful as we sometimes like to 
think we are. Times have changed, of course, and there are many more 
competitors for our interest (and many fewer people with nothing to do but 
learn a new language and produce something in it), but we should not make too 
much of our achievements, which probably don't even compare all that well 
with Klingon, to pick something somewhat more contemporary.