From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Nov 24 07:50:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Nov 2001 15:50:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 83368 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 15:50:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2001 15:50:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.57) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 15:50:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 07:50:50 -0800 Received: from 200.41.247.39 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:50:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.39] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Even simple texts are difficult Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:50:49 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2001 15:50:50.0115 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA36B530:01C174FF] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la greg cusku di'e >.ibazuki vomei ke cmalu ractu >there were four small rabbits. Did you mean {pu} instead of {ba}? I would have used no tense at all. You can't avoid it in English, but is the time relative to the speaker really of any relevance to the story? >.i lei go'i se cmene la flops .e la mops .e la mapreb .e la pityr >these were called flopsy, mopsy, cottontail, and peter, > >I'm trying to describe a mapping of names onto four objects which have only >sofar been described as a mass how should I do this? First of all, la flops, la mops, etc are rabbits, not names. zo flops, zo mops are the names. There is a correspondence between articles and connectives: e-le, joi-lei, ce-le'i. Unfortunately, there is no article corresponding to the connective fa'u, which would have been just what we need here. If {lau'u} were such article we could say: {i lau'u go'i cu se cmene zo flops fa'u zo mops fa'u zo mapreb fa'u zo pityr}. Probably you can get away with using {lei} instead of {lau'u}. >.i ra joi lera mamta cu xabju lo canre derxi noi ni'a mutce barda ckune >they lived with their mother in a sandbank under a big fir tree > >I'm not sure about the joi lera mamta but I'm even more doubtful about >kansa >(any other suggestions?...) {joi} works, but so does {kansa}, what's the problem with either? >I'm also not intirely sure about my modal... {noi ni'a mutce barda ckune} does not mean "under a big fir tree", it means that the bank is a ckune under something else. You want something like {noi cnita lo barda ckune} or if you prefer {noi barda ckune cnita}. >.ilu ju'i doi mibdib. sei la tolci'o nin ractu cu cusku ca pa cerni se'u >.e'a do klama mo'ine'i le foldi .a mo'ire'o le klaji > >"Now my dears" said old mrs Rabbit one morning "you can go into the field >or >down the road > >la tolci'o nin ractu is obviously wrong - what should I do about it? We don't have a good way of handling titles yet. Maybe just {le tolci'o ractyfe'i}. >modals: I think the whole lot don't parse... You can't put anything after the selbri in a sei-phrase. This caused me lots of problems in the Alice translation. The reordering it forces you to do often results in very ugly things. In this case you have to say {sei le tolci'o ractyfe'i ca le cerni cu cusku}, otherwise {ca le cerni} becomes part of what Mrs Rabbit said. >anything better for one morning? {le cerni}. This is about the only time Lojban uses {le} but English does not use "the": "a certain morning". >.iku'ibo ko na mo'ine'i klama le purdi po la nan mygregor >but don't go into mr mcgregor's field > >I got the modal right here (I think) yay I think it says that the going to the field as a whole moves into something else. I would just say {klama le purdi} or {klama le nenri be le purdi}. >.imu'ibo ledo patfu pu va se raktu la nin mygregor. lenu ri setca ra lo >pilstasu >because you father met with an accident there : he was put into a pie by >mrs >mcgregor I'm not sure {va} works for "there" in this case. "There" here means "the place I just mentioned", not some distance from Mrs Rabbit. >accident=?? >pie=?????????????? >I like this construction, it has the same underlying humour as the english {snuti} is accident. >.i ko klama je na se raktu .e'o >run along now and don't get into mischief {je nai} or {gi'e na}. {je na} is not grammatical. >hmm... any better suggestions? > >.i mi klama fi le zdani li'u >I'm going out" > >good > >(add to previous word "god") > >that's terrible... > >All suggestions most welcome... How about {mi cliva}? mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp