From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Fri Dec 07 00:55:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 7 Dec 2001 08:55:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 34979 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 08:55:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2001 08:55:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.71) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 08:55:38 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.118] by n21.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2001 08:49:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 08:55:36 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Romany and Romanian Message-ID: <9uq068+9bgs@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <103.d6123ee.29418046@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1217 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "aolung" X-Originating-IP: 149.225.122.255 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=37407270 X-Yahoo-Profile: aolung --- In lojban@y..., pycyn@a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/6/2001 6:20:21 PM Central Standard Time, > phma@o... writes: > > > > How do we distinguish Romany from Romanian (besides {tsingaro}, of course)? > > How did we get 'em confused in the first place? One is eccentric Romance, the > eccentric Indic and, though I suppose the Dom came through Roumania on their > way to Western Europe, I don't think they lingered there more than most > places (til next week's pogrom). As far as I ever heard (never in ideals > circumstances) the initial consonant in the Gypsy selfname is a retroflex > voiced stop, whence the d/r variation. Maybe we can call them Doms (Indians > regularly take English alveolars as retroflex since they are back of the > native detnals). The r-sound has nothing to do with their (pretty long) stay in Romania - they're still there!!!, since they had lived in other countries having this sound long before (Armenia, Turkey, Greece ...) and their language is still rich of this heritage. Hearing the language today, it's all normal "rolled" r (except in Germany where many often it's pronounced like in French), but never like "d" (this would be very misleading!) --.aulun.