From pycyn@aol.com Fri Dec 07 18:56:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 8 Dec 2001 02:56:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 16950 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 02:56:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2001 02:56:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r05.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.101) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 02:56:52 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id r.9f.1f91b6dc (18709) for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:56:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9f.1f91b6dc.2942db72@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:56:50 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] Logical translation request To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9f.1f91b6dc.2942db72_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_9f.1f91b6dc.2942db72_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/7/2001 7:14:06 PM Central Standard Time, phma@oltronics.net writes: > > "At the time, it seemed the logical thing to do." > > ca lenu co'e kei lenu gasnu kei pu simlu le ka lojdra > "At the time of some event, the event of being an agent seemed to have the property of being valid" Maybe "doing something seemed valid"? In any case, I'll focus on {lojdra} and suggest that that is almost certainly not what is meant (I know it is what is said, more or less, in English). This seems to be a practical more than a strictly logical matter, even if it points to a careful consideration of the outcomes of a variety of choices carried out by deep reasoning. The test is what result is best, not what follows from what -- though what result is best may be decided by what a deduction from a statement of goals. Of course, "seemed" suggests that there was no serious argumentation, rather a rough-and-ready calculation or maybe just intuition or even a guess -- so no logic at all in fact. "Seemed most likely to lead to a successful outcome" is about the sense. The two anaphora, "the time" and "it" require more context to flesh out: "it" is likely the content of some recent sentence "Why did you ...?" and so can be picked up with an appopriate version of prosumti for components of earlier sentences. The same may be the case with "the time" or it may require some specific filling in. Perhaps, {co'e} does work in context even. --part1_9f.1f91b6dc.2942db72_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/7/2001 7:14:06 PM Central Standard Time, phma@oltronics.net writes:


> "At the time, it seemed the logical thing to do."

ca lenu co'e kei lenu gasnu kei pu simlu le ka lojdra


"At the time of some event, the event of being an agent seemed to have the property of being valid"  Maybe "doing something seemed valid"?

In any case, I'll focus on {lojdra} and suggest that that is almost certainly not what is meant (I know it is what is said, more or less, in English).  This seems to be a practical more than a strictly logical matter, even if it points to a careful consideration of the outcomes of a variety of choices carried out by deep reasoning.  The test is what result is best, not what follows from what  -- though what result is best may be decided by what a deduction from a statement of goals.  Of course, "seemed" suggests that there was no serious argumentation, rather a rough-and-ready calculation or maybe just intuition or even a guess -- so no logic at all in fact.  "Seemed most likely to lead to a successful outcome" is about the sense.

The two anaphora, "the time" and "it" require more context to flesh out: "it" is likely the content of some recent sentence "Why did you ...?" and so can be picked up with an appopriate version of prosumti for components of earlier sentences.  The same may be the case with "the time" or it may require some specific filling in.  Perhaps, {co'e} does work in context even.
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