From lojbanlists@wonderclown.com Thu Jan 10 05:30:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: randy@wonderclown.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 10 Jan 2002 13:30:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 4479 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 13:30:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2002 13:30:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail4.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.51) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 13:30:22 -0000 Received: from aerosol ([66.57.85.38]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:30:25 -0500 Received: from rnortman by aerosol with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16OfHh-00032m-00 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:30:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:30:21 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban Text to Speech Message-ID: <20020110133020.GA11638@aerosol> References: <212FCE8E-02C2-11D6-8F27-000393074A5A@urbanium.tv> <0GPP008EAXV61G@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0GPP008EAXV61G@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.24i Sender: Randall Nortman Return-Path: randy@wonderclown.com From: "randl. nortmn." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91794573 X-Yahoo-Profile: uyndrklaun On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:45:05AM -0800, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Sunday 06 January 2002 08:26 am, Candide Kemmler wrote: [...] > > The french "R" (don't know the scientific word for that one...) > > could be used too, but I don't think it's very popular. And as > > randl. nortmn. stressed they are hardly distinguishable from the > > lojban 'x' (but then, the "xr" diphtong seems equally problematic > > with the both the alveolar and the "french" R...) > > Speak for yourself. Some of us can easily make these distinctions. > For one thing, French 'r' is voiced, while > Russian/German/Scottish/Hebrew/Yiddish/Lojban 'x's (ch, kh) are > unvoiced. I believe the difficulty (my difficulty, at least), is not in distinguishing between a French "r" and "x", but between French "r" and "xr". Given any "r" other than the French, I can distinguish. But I have studied French for many years and feel that I have decent pronunciation, but I cannot myself figure out how to pronounce the French "r" differently from "xr". If such a difference exists, I doubt I could pick it out in a full-speed speech stream, but I should like to hear a recording out of curiosity. With any other "r" that I know (and I'm not a linguist), including American ("aveolar"?) and various degrees of trilled, I can fairly easily produce and recognize the distinction. I personally use a trilled "r" in my Lojban, because I think it is more distinct than my native American "r", and it also discourages me from falling into the other American habit of slopping up my vowels. mu'omi'e randl.