From ragnarok@pobox.com Tue Jan 29 17:52:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 30 Jan 2002 01:52:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 69285 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 01:52:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2002 01:52:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 01:52:19 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.98] by intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A1A349800C8; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:51:31 -0500 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Bible translation style question Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:52:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >I use SOV whenever it would be as clear as the SVO (there are times when it >wouldn't, but they are not all that frequent) >Interesting, I was aware of it as a regular pattern in use only from people with Romance language backgrounds (you don't have one, do you?) where it is a >norm with pronouns at least. I do speak Spanish, but I do it in Lojban because it felt more lobykai to do so at first, and I have gotten used to that style. >languages, and Lojban is similar to both SVO and SOV languages in other >aspects, but slightly closer to SVO.> >Interesting. Details, please. Moght this say something about what is natural Lojban style? (Assuming we don't want to do something just because no other >language does.) to summarize the sporadic but relevant bits of Anthony Fox's _Linguistic Reconstruction: an Introduction to Theory and Method_: SVO languages are more likely to be prepositional; SOV tend to be postpositional. OV tend to be agglutinative, with (C)CV syllable structure, vowel harmony, and pitch accent, while VO tend to be inflecting. OV languages have adjectives before nouns, VO have them after. Verb-final languages will have a case system. This gives us the following for the two styles: Pro-SVO: prepositional (1) Anti-SVO: isolating, adjectives before nouns. (2) Pro-SOV: CCV syllables, adjectives before nouns. (2) Anti-SOV: prepositional, isolating, no pitch accent, no vowel harmony, no cases. (5) In other words, lojban doesn't really fit either mold. but it has some of both. however, since 1/2 is slightly larger than 2/5, I conclude that it is closer to an SVO language - but not by much. --la kreig.daniyl. 'segu le balvi temci gi mi'o renvi lo purci .i ga le fonxa janbe gi du mi' -la djimis.BYFet xy.sy. gubmau ckiku nacycme: 0x5C3A1E74