From araizen@newmail.net Wed Jan 30 10:42:47 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 30 Jan 2002 18:42:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 99262 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 18:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2002 18:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sphere.barak.net.il) (212.150.48.98) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 18:42:45 -0000 Received: from out.newmail.net ([10.10.11.10]) by sphere.barak.net.il (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 license 5444ddd44659357c6c93343e0ce38507) with SMTP id <20020130184115.VUNS2403.sphere@out.newmail.net> for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:41:15 +0200 Received: from default ([62.0.180.144]) by out.newmail.net ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:43:51 +0200 Message-ID: <061a01c1a9be$00283540$90b4003e@default> To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Bible translation style question Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:43:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Adam Raizen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3063669 X-Yahoo-Profile: araizen la kreig. cusku di'e > Pro-SVO: prepositional (1) > Anti-SVO: isolating, adjectives before nouns. (2) > Pro-SOV: CCV syllables, adjectives before nouns. (2) > Anti-SOV: prepositional, isolating, no pitch accent, no vowel harmony, no > cases. (5) Other than the morphology, lojban follows English exactly in all this, which is very idiosyncratic. So much for deciding on word order based on this. I've read that in VO languages, the verb tends to be maintained in the first sentence in sentences involve gapping of a verb (i.e. "John saw the dog and Mary the cat" instead of "John the dog and Mary saw the cat"), and vice versa in OV languages. In lojban, 'la djan. viska le gerku .ije la meris. le mlatu' is ungrammatical unfortunately, but since 'la djan le gerku .ije la meris. viska le mlatu' is grammatical, maybe that's a point in favor of it being OV. (Then again if we replace 'je' with 'ji'a', no such grammatical limitation exists.) If we use a termset "nu'ige la djan. le gerku nu'ugi la meris. le mlatu cu viska" is seems more like the first verb is gapped, in addition to forcing OV structure. I've also read that in VO languages, in comparatives the adjective and the pivot tend to preceed the standard, whereas in OV languages the standard tends to preceed the pivot and the adjective. (I guess that in 'this is redder than that', 'red' is the adjective, 'that' is the standard, and 'than' is the pivot.) I don't think lojban has much in the way of a pivot. Maybe it's 'fe' in a zmadu-sentence, in which case the pivot would preceed the standard when it's used, but the rest can be done in any order (i.e. any of 'ti xunrymau ta' or 'ti zmadu ta le ka xunre' or 'ti ta xunrymau/zmadu le ka xunre'). mu'o mi'e .adam.