From pycyn@aol.com Thu Jan 31 07:15:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 15:15:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 97717 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 15:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 15:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.7) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 15:15:03 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id r.5f.21ada3e1 (17377) for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:14:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5f.21ada3e1.298ab970@aol.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:14:56 EST Subject: Re: UI for 'possible' (was: Re: [lojban] Bible translation style question) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_5f.21ada3e1.298ab970_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_5f.21ada3e1.298ab970_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/31/2002 8:51:00 AM Central Standard Time, xod@sixgirls.org writes: > And ui, while not propositional (because the definition of "propositional" > used on this list is completely arbitrary), doesn't necessarily affect the > truth value. And, to utter "sei gleki" is an expression of an emotional > state. > > About the only thing that can defensibly be said is that "gleki" is a > brivla while "ui" is not. > The definition is, of course, that given by logic and so not arbitrary in a language explicitly based on logic. UI by and large don't affect truth values, they have truth-value preconditions in some cases and they remove items from truth value consideration in some cases, but they don't change from one value to another. The {sei} expressions seem to function like that (I'm not sure about taking things out of truth value consideration). In the particular case of {ui} and {gleki}, you can also say that {ui ko'a broda} and {mi gleki lenu ko'a broda} differ not only in focus but in truth conditions: the first is true or false regardless of my state of happiness, the second depends upon that state (and maybe not on {ko'a broda}). --part1_5f.21ada3e1.298ab970_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/31/2002 8:51:00 AM Central Standard Time, xod@sixgirls.org writes:


And ui, while not propositional (because the definition of "propositional"
used on this list is completely arbitrary), doesn't necessarily affect the
truth value. And, to utter "sei gleki" is an expression of an emotional
state.

About the only thing that can defensibly be said is that "gleki" is a
brivla while "ui" is not.


The definition is, of course, that given by logic and so not arbitrary in a language explicitly based on logic. UI by and large don't affect truth values, they have truth-value preconditions in some cases and they remove items from truth value consideration in some cases, but they don't change from one value to another.  The {sei} expressions seem to function like that (I'm not sure about taking things out of truth value consideration).  In the particular case of {ui} and {gleki}, you can also say that {ui ko'a broda} and {mi gleki lenu ko'a broda} differ not only in focus but in truth conditions: the first is true or false regardless of my state of happiness, the second depends upon that state (and maybe not on {ko'a broda}). --part1_5f.21ada3e1.298ab970_boundary--