From xod@sixgirls.org Thu Jan 31 07:22:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 15:22:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 12838 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 15:22:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 15:22:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (216.27.131.50) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 15:22:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.6+3.4W/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0VFM7h18602 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:22:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:22:06 -0500 (EST) To: lojban Subject: Truth Value of UI (was: Re: UI for 'possible' (was: Re: [lojban] Bible translation style question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1138703 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, And Rosta wrote: > Xod: > #On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, And Rosta wrote: > #> Indeed not. 'ui' is an expression of emotion; an uttered smile. 'Sei > #> gleki' is a metalinguistic comment that is propositional in nature but > #> does not contribute to the truth conditions of the sentence. > # > #And ui, while not propositional (because the definition of "propositional" > #used on this list is completely arbitrary), > > AFAIK the definition used on this list is the usual one = "has a truth value". I have argued that ".ui" has a truth value. It is "true" when the speaker is actually happy. All utterances have truth value, even "ouch!". > #And, to utter "sei gleki" is an expression of an emotional state. > > Assuming that like me you are maintaining a terminological distinction > between "expression" and "description", then "sei gleki" describes a > state of happiness but does not intrinsically express a state of happiness; > "ui" is the exact opposite. Differentiation between "expression" and "description" is approaching the "planck-length" of meaning; in other words, the point at which discussion is pointless. Typically "description" refers to objective (external) phenomena, whereas "expression" typically refers to internal, subjective experiences. In this case I am afraid I don't see a difference. When someone is happy, they say ".ui", or "mi gleki" as they please. Both indicate to listeners that the speaker is happy. -- The tao that can be tar(1)ed is not the entire Tao. The path that can be specified is not the Full Path.