From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Thu Jan 31 07:55:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 15:55:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 23061 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 15:55:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 15:55:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 15:55:57 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:29:58 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:55:50 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:55:17 +0000 To: xod , lojban Subject: Truth Value of UI (was: Re: UI for 'possible' (was: Re: [lojban] Bibletranslation style question) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Xod: ***************************** > #On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, And Rosta wrote: > #> Indeed not. 'ui' is an expression of emotion; an uttered smile. 'Sei > #> gleki' is a metalinguistic comment that is propositional in nature but > #> does not contribute to the truth conditions of the sentence. > # > #And ui, while not propositional (because the definition of "propositiona= l" > #used on this list is completely arbitrary), > > AFAIK the definition used on this list is the usual one =3D "has a truth = value". I have argued that ".ui" has a truth value. It is "true" when the speaker is actually happy. All utterances have truth value, even "ouch!". ******************************************* Your contention is incorrect. The difference between "ui" and "mi gleki" is precisely that only the latter has a truth value. #> #And, to utter "sei gleki" is an expression of an emotional state. #> #> Assuming that like me you are maintaining a terminological distinction #> between "expression" and "description", then "sei gleki" describes a #> state of happiness but does not intrinsically express a state of happine= ss; #> "ui" is the exact opposite. # #Differentiation between "expression" and "description" is approaching the #"planck-length" of meaning; in other words, the point at which discussion #is pointless. # #Typically "description" refers to objective (external) phenomena, whereas #"expression" typically refers to internal, subjective experiences. # #In this case I am afraid I don't see a difference. When someone is happy, #they say ".ui", or "mi gleki" as they please. Both indicate to listeners #that the speaker is happy. As does a smile, as does a satisfied sigh. Sorry -- I must be off now. --And.