From xod@sixgirls.org Thu Jan 31 13:43:42 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 21:43:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 38806 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 21:43:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 21:43:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (216.27.131.50) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 21:43:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.6+3.4W/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0VLhd705681 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:43:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:43:38 -0500 (EST) To: lojban Subject: Re: UI for 'possible' (was: Re: [lojban] Bible translation style question) In-Reply-To: <007601c1aa9e$c9e3f8c0$c4b7003e@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1138703 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Adam Raizen wrote: > la .and. cusku di'e > > > I agree that "sei cumki" is the UI-like way to say "possibly". > > > > However, what you describe as 'shifting focus' is actually in some > cases > > a shift also in truth conditions. The 'logical' way to defocalize > superstructure > > would be to leave the logical structure in standard selbri + sumti > form, and > > to indicate (de)focalization by means of UI. > > In what way can it shift truth conditions? The only possibility I can > think of would be in cases where the selbrivla does not claim the > subsentence, as in 'cumki'. If you claim that 'sei cumki mi klama' > claims that mi klama, then clearly that has a different truth value > than 'le nu mi klama cu cumki'; however, there are many UI which > change the truth value, so I don't see any reason why 'sei' clauses > must be different. Also, I consider 'sei cumki mi klama' to be the > same as 'le nu kau mi klama cu cumki' (using 'kau' for the > focus-marking UI), at least until someone objects or comes up with > something better. mi na jimpe lo jai tepi'o cusku zo kau .i ku'i li'a zo sei ka'e galfi lo jezbroda mu'a lu sei tcica mi klama li'u -- The tao that can be tar(1)ed is not the entire Tao. The path that can be specified is not the Full Path.