From araizen@newmail.net Sat Feb 02 15:35:07 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 23:35:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 84305 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 23:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 23:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sphere.barak.net.il) (212.150.48.98) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 23:35:05 -0000 Received: from out.newmail.net ([10.10.11.10]) by sphere.barak.net.il (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 license 5444ddd44659357c6c93343e0ce38507) with SMTP id <20020202233335.CIRN2403.sphere@out.newmail.net> for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 01:33:35 +0200 Received: from default ([62.0.180.18]) by out.newmail.net ; Sun, 03 Feb 2002 01:36:08 +0200 Message-ID: <006201c1ac42$588c6720$12b4003e@default> To: "lojban" References: Subject: Re: UI for 'possible' (was: Re: [lojban] Bible translation style question) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 01:35:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Adam Raizen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3063669 X-Yahoo-Profile: araizen la .and. cusku di'e > Well, I can't quite remember whether sei is supposed to be > metalinguistic, or whether it is just a device for creating adverbials, > but if it is metalinguistic then I do object. Woldy is inaccessible > to me right now, so I can't check. The book does say that 'sei' is 'metalinguistic', but it doesn't fully explain what it means by that. 'po'o' and 'da'i' are included among the 'metalinguistic' indicators of UI, so I think that metalinguistic indicators can alter the truth value. Otherwise, a large number of pontential sei-phrases become useless. 'sei cumki' would be useless, since the sentence claims the main bridi, and anything true is also possible. Likewise, 'sei tolcu'i' would be useless, since it would claim the main bridi, and anything true is not impossible. I think that whether the truth value is altered is a matter of what the sei-clause is, as it is with the rest of the indicators. Barring that, how *would* you do adverbs? Supposedly, nouns, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs are all collapsed into selbrivla in lojban, but this doesn't work, as I assume that there would be even greater objections to 'mi cumki klama' meaning 'I possibly go'. Is restructuring the sentence to be the only way to do it? mu'o mi'e .adam.