Subject: Re: UI for 'possible' (was: Re: [lojban] Bible translation style question)

From: "Adam Raizen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 03:06:31 +0200

la .and. cusku di'e

> Likewise, I feel strongly that {da'i} ought not alter truth
conditions;
> it should indicate that the speaker is not claiming the proposition
> within its scope to be true.

When 'da'i's scope is the main bridi, then it would be altering truth
conditions, since the normal assuption is that the main bridi is true.
I stuck to 'da'i' and 'po'o' because they are 'pure' UI, but there's
also the obvious case of 'je'unai', which clearly doesn't claim the
bridi it is attached to and is every bit as metalinguistic as 'li'a',
'sa'e', etc.

> > Otherwise, a large number of
> > pontential sei-phrases become useless. 'sei cumki' would be
useless,
> > since the sentence claims the main bridi, and anything true is
also
> > possible.
>
> Not every unmarked sentence is a claim. Without overt indicators,
> the illocutionary force has to be glorked from context, though of
> course without strong contextual evidence to the contrary, we do
> assume that an unmarked sentence is a claim.

If not every unmarked sentence has to be a claim, then certainly some
marked sentences may not be claims, and what is an overt indicator if
not 'sei'? Thus, according to what you've thus said, even if sei is
purely 'metalinguistic' and merely makes comments about the discourse
without affecting truth value, 'sei cumki mi klama' still works as it
should.

> Adverbs are of course a heterogeneous class, both syntactically
> and semantically. But taking your 'average' adverb, logically
> it would normally correspond to a predicate, predicated of
> a proposition (or state-of-affairs). But if you want to keep
> adverby sort of syntax, then use a BAI, either the BAI for
> manner, or else fi'o. Placing the modal before the selbri allows
> for the omission of the sumti.

Of course, and some types are easy to do in lojban, but I was thinking
of 'possibly'-type of adverbs. BAI (and sumti-tags in general) work
for some adverbs, but for others they don't work so well. For example,
'fi'o cumki ku mi klama' 'with possible event (whatever) I come'. A
BAI-tag is supposed to add an additional place, and there is no other
relevant place here; it is just a comment on the main bridi.

mu'o mi'e .adam.