From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Feb 13 06:07:57 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 13 Feb 2002 14:07:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 12298 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2002 14:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2002 14:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.16) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2002 14:07:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 06:07:56 -0800 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:07:55 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] tautologies Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:07:55 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2002 14:07:56.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5E6D220:01C1B497] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la and cusku di'e >I don't think this is attributable to malglico. Jorge's reasoning was >approximately thus: > >1. "du'u ma kau broda" = "is a completion of the incomplete propostion >'ma kau broda' = 'x broda', where x is unbound". >2 So what might main clause "ma kau broda" mean? That any >completion of the incomplete proposition is true? >3. If so, that turns out to be a good way of rendering English >conditional wh-ever constructions. Almost. I was thinking something like this: 1. "du'u ma kau broda" = "is a completion of the incomplete propostion 'ma broda' = 'x broda', where x is unbound". The incomplete proposition is 'ma broda'. 'kau' signals a completion. (Which completion depends on context. {djuno} requires a true completion, other predicates don't.) Similarly 'pau' signals the request for a completion. 2 So what might main clause "ma kau broda" mean? It is also a completion of 'ma broda'. Which completion? Typically a/the true one, in the context where the sentence would otherwise be used as a claim. 3. If so, that turns out to be a good way of rendering English conditional wh-ever constructions. >I disagreed with step 2 on logical grounds and with step 3 on more >practical grounds. Your step 2 is not quite right, because not any completion will be true. The true completion is selected by virtue of it being an ordinary main clause. (By ordianry I mean that there are no other explicit 'metalinguisticals', which I suppose might alter things. >I think this is a problematic proposal, but it's going to look like >nonsense >to you if you don't realize it's a novel rule of interpretation. Thanks for helping me sort things out! One problem I noticed after sending it is that it won't work for mixed cases, since we have no way of indicating which slot is being kau'ed and which is pau'ed... mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx