From phma@webjockey.net Wed Feb 13 15:27:01 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 13 Feb 2002 23:27:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 86942 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2002 23:27:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2002 23:27:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO neofelis.ixazon.lan) (208.150.110.21) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2002 23:27:00 -0000 Received: by neofelis.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 500) id 2A92E3C478; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:27:00 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Non-logical AND in Tanru? Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:26:57 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <123.bbbdb05.299be8a1@aol.com> In-Reply-To: X-Spamtrap: fesmri@ixazon.dynip.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02021318265715.16980@neofelis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com From: Pierre Abbat X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 On Wednesday 13 February 2002 18:11, thanatos@dim.com wrote: > I finally thought of an example that might clarify things a bit more. > If {mi ti poi xunre cu klama}, am I a possible referent of {lo xunre je > klama}? I'm easily {lo xunre klama}, but is {ti xunre gi'e se klama mi} > enough to claim {mi ti xunre je klama}? Of at least one of the given > sumti {xunre} is true at the same time {klama} is true for all of them, > so two true claims are made of the given sumti with the two given > selbri, if the choice of sumti for {xunre} is ambiguous. {mi ti xunre je klama} is unclear, as it is claiming {mi ti xunre} and {mi ti klama} for the same referents, and {xunre} doesn't have an x2 place. > That ambiguity could lead to things like {mi tu berti je klama do} > having as a possible interpretation, "I am going to that yonder from > you, that yonder being north", and that may be a little too ambiguous, > but it makes jeks more useful than forcing that to mean "I am going to > that yonder from you and I am north of something." "I am going there from you, I being north of there in your reference frame." {mi klama be tu be'o je xunre}, however, is grammatical. What does it mean? phma