From a.rosta@ntlworld.com Thu Feb 14 11:05:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@ntlworld.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 14 Feb 2002 19:05:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 68183 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2002 19:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2002 19:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.46) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2002 19:05:03 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.255.40.185]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020214190501.ZQYR7000.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:05:01 +0000 To: "lojban" Subject: RE: [lojban] [OT]Argumentum ad elephantum Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:04:18 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77248971 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin xod: > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, And Rosta wrote: > > > Xod: > > #Now come on! How does the narrator "know" the object was an > > #elephant? He is claiming objective knowledge in distinction to the 6 blind > > #men! Where does it imply anywhere that the narrator is unsure of his belief > > #that the animal was an Elephant? The criticism stands, whether or not it's > > #relevant to the point of the fable. (I tend to think not.) > > > > It depends on the UI the narrator uses. It is possible for the narrator > > to assemble a set of sentences that describe a state-of-affairs without > > the narrator necessarily claiming that the state-of-affairs is objectively > > real. Indeed, that is how stories and fables work. > > Nobody's debating whether the story is hypothetical as opposed to being a > historical document. You are in effect saying that the narrator is claiming that the text has the status of a historical document. I can't think of another context in which you could say he is claiming objective knowledge. Ordinary stories and fables aren't claims; they're just descriptions, whose truth is unimportant. --And.