From araizen@newmail.net Thu Feb 14 14:13:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 14 Feb 2002 22:13:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 42043 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2002 22:13:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2002 22:13:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mxout2.netvision.net.il) (194.90.9.21) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2002 22:13:04 -0000 Received: from default ([62.0.180.153]) by mxout2.netvision.net.il (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Sep 5 2001)) with SMTP id <0GRJ00JQSN1PLK@mxout2.netvision.net.il> for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:13:03 +0200 (IST) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:14:26 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] lo'e nanmu cu cliva lo'e patfu To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <000901c1b5a4$fa7dd8a0$99b4003e@default> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <0202141144131B.16980@neofelis> From: Adam Raizen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3063669 X-Yahoo-Profile: araizen la pier. cusku di'e > I wrote the following for Genesis 2:24: > to .iseki'ubo lo'e nanmu cu cliva lo'e patfu .e lo'e mamta gi'e snipa lo'e > speni .ibo le remei cu binxo pa rectu toi > Adam commented: > @c I think that 'lo'e' should be avoided as it's not clear what it means. > @c At any rate the most canonical meaning doesn't work here. ('the typical > @c man will leave the typical father?') -- Adam > > I think {lo'e nanmu} is correct, as men typically get married, and {lo} would > claim only that at least one man gets married, whereas {le} would mean that > the author has in mind someone who gets married. {lo'e patfu} I'm less sure > of, as it's really lo patfu be lo'e nanmu, and I'm not sure whether {le > remei} should be {le'e remei} (since it's not talking about the typical pair > of anything, but only the typical man-woman pair) or {lo'e remei}. And is > {rectu} the right word here? 'lo'e' is the best of all the gadri that you mentioned, but I think that the text is trying to make a more universal claim, more like 'ro nanmu cu cliva le patfu be vo'a ...', though I'm not sure that the full strength of 'ro' is meant. As for 'remei', it needs to refer to 'LO nanmu' and 'LO speni', which were only mentioned separately. A pair can be a pair of typical things or archetypal things or whatever, so I think that 'le remei' works, which in the context refers to the previous referents. 'pa rectu' (or maybe 'rectu pamei') is what the text literally says. If a less literal interpretation is wanted, I would choose 'xadni', I think. mu'o mi'e .adam.