From cowan@ccil.org Thu Feb 14 19:33:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: cowan@mercury.ccil.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 15 Feb 2002 03:33:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 58607 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2002 03:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2002 03:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2002 03:33:21 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16bZ7t-0000hf-00 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:33:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [lojban] [OT]Argumentum ad elephantum In-Reply-To: from And Rosta at "Feb 14, 2002 10:39:43 pm" To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:33:33 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=212516 X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan And Rosta scripsit: > But this is a story that the narrator is not a part of. There is no > identifiable or discernible narrator at all. In other words, "in the > context of the story" there is no narrator. Well, the text I am working with is the John Godfrey Saxe version (http://www.wordfocus.com/word-act-blindmen.html and elsewhere). The final verse, labeled "Moral", is: So oft in theologic wars, The disputants, I ween, Rail on in utter ignorance Of what each other mean, And prate about an Elephant Not one of them has seen! Now unless you think that this is direct address by the *poet*, I submit that it is direct address by the *narrator*, and establishes the existence of such an entity. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful. --_The Hobbit_