From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Wed Feb 20 11:03:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 20 Feb 2002 19:03:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 16266 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 19:03:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2002 19:03:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 19:03:41 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:37:11 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:03:28 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:03:14 +0000 To: cowan , jjllambias Cc: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [jboske] RE: Anything but tautologies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin John: #>>> John Cowan 02/19/02 12:00am >>> #Jorge Llambias scripsit: #> xod: x1 is a name and x4 is the function #> cowan: x1 is the function and x4 is an expression (a text) #> lojbab: x1 is the function and x4 is something like li f(x)=3Dx*2, #> which is not very clear what it is because equations #> are not numbers. #> pc: x1=3Dx4 both are the function, with the proviso that good style #> requires to use a more helpful description in x4. #>=20 #> I much prefer pc's version over any of the others, although even #> better for me would be to drop x4 altoghether. # #I don't see how that can work. Given that x1 is a function (rejecting #xod's view), an abstract object, you need some x4 to tell you which #function it is. A function is not just any mapping between the #elements of the domain and the range, it is some particular mapping. #such as "successor", "ancestor", "solely owned by", or what have you. # #Consider the set of clock numbers: {12, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11}= . #Use this as the domain and range of two functions: "an hour later than" #and "an hour earlier than". Without an x4, you can't tell which is #which. I see the argument. I don't think it's right. The relationship between "the function" and "an hour later than" is an appositive/equative one, as Jorge & pc have been saying. Likewise we don't add an extra sumti to "pr= enu" to specify the name of the person -- "le prenu" tells you it's a=20 person, but not which person; "le fancu" would tell you it's a function, bu= t=20 not which function. So, to solve your problem, po'u should be used, not this spurious x4. --And.