From jjllambias@hotmail.com Tue Mar 05 14:25:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 5 Mar 2002 22:25:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 57264 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 15:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2002 15:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.241) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 15:50:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:50:29 -0800 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:50:28 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: sets, masses, &c. (was: RE: [lojban] Re: [jboske] RE: Anything but tautol... Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:50:28 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2002 15:50:29.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[79824E30:01C1C45D] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la and cusku di'e >1. How DO you say "apple" (as in "the bowl was full of apple") in >Lojban, without using inherently vague tanru, and without having >to define a lujvo for every such mass term? Since there is no gismu in Lojban meaning "x1 is a quantity of apple (the substance)", you can't refer to a quantity of apple substance unless you use a lujvo or a fu'ivla. The article {loi} does not extract apple material from apples or shirt material from shirts. In English you wouldn't say "a bowl full of shirt" if the bowl was full of cloth. Some words in English work for both the object and for the main substance of that object, but Lojban is more strict in that respect. It would seem that {loi} has nothing to do with mass nouns in English. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com