From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Wed Mar 06 05:33:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: Lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 6 Mar 2002 13:33:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 32983 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 13:33:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2002 13:33:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 13:33:16 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:03:24 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:30:13 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:29:50 +0000 To: Lojban Subject: Re: sets, masses, &c. (was: RE: [lojban] Re: [jboske] RE: Anything but tautol... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin >>> John Cowan 03/05/02 11:06pm >>> #And Rosta wrote: #> loi plise =3D a bowl of apple #> lo'i plise =3D a bowl of apples # #The trouble with this is that "lo'i plise" means the set of #all apples, which (even were we to say that a set can be #contained) surely don't fit in the bowl. Okay, that snag knocks my suggestion on the head. =20 #> Note that "a bowl of apple" doesn't require that it be diced or pureed; #> it simply deconceptualizes the individuating boundaries. But "a bowl #> of apples" does require conceptualizing the individuating boundaries. # #I agree with this reading of the English, and that "loi plise" gives #you the former, since that is some portion of Mr. Apple. What is #wrong with "lo plise" (some of the things which are apples) for #"a bowl of apples"? My earlier example was "a bowl full of apples". The apples collectively fill the bowl but not separately. --And.