From pycyn@aol.com Mon Mar 11 07:45:12 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 11 Mar 2002 15:45:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 64487 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 15:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2002 15:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d09.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.41) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 15:43:42 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.c5.1f687ca2 (4324) for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:43:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:43:38 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] More about quantifiers To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c5.1f687ca2.29be2aaa_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_c5.1f687ca2.29be2aaa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2002 6:42:14 AM Central Standard Time, phma@webjockey.net writes: > > Traditionally, "All swans are white" (used by Aristotle, but now known > > to be empirically false) was read as having existential import, as > > you say. > > .i 1mai ganai roda nebdatka gi da blabi > .i 2mai ro nebdatka cu blabi > To be on the safe side, {roda zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi da blabi} (the quantifier inside the conditional but with scope over the whole leads sometimes to unexpected results). The first is, I think, universally agreed to be non-importing. The second is also, according to xorxes, is importing according to me (and, I would say, Lojban generally). <.i .eipe'i de jajgau ro terpli be zo ro .e zo da .e zo ga .e zo'e be'o .e le xelfanva pa papri> That might be handy, but would not cast a lot of light here. For one thing, most cases would be indeterminate as to whether import was intended or not. --part1_c5.1f687ca2.29be2aaa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2002 6:42:14 AM Central Standard Time, phma@webjockey.net writes:


> Traditionally, "All swans are white" (used by Aristotle, but now known
> to be empirically false) was read as having existential import, as
> you say.

.i 1mai ganai roda nebdatka gi da blabi
.i 2mai ro nebdatka cu blabi


To be on the safe side, {roda zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi da blabi} (the quantifier inside the conditional but with scope over the whole leads sometimes to unexpected results). The first is, I think, universally agreed to be non-importing.  The second is also, according to xorxes, is importing according to me (and, I would say, Lojban generally). 


<.i .eipe'i de jajgau ro terpli be zo ro .e zo da .e zo ga .e zo'e be'o .e le
xelfanva pa papri>

That might be handy, but would not cast a lot of light here.  For one thing, most cases would be indeterminate as to whether import was intended or not.
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