From pycyn@aol.com Mon Mar 11 12:45:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 11 Mar 2002 20:45:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 59595 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 20:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2002 20:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d10.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.42) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 20:45:29 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.e4.24118090 (4402) for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:45:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:45:26 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] More about quantifiers To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e4.24118090.29be7166_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_e4.24118090.29be7166_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2002 9:53:31 AM Central Standard Time, phma@webjockey.net writes: > Subj:Re: [lojban] More about quantifiers > Date:3/11/2002 9:53:31 AM Central Standard Time > From:phma@webjockey.net > To:lojban@yahoogroups.com > Sent from the Internet > > > > On Monday 11 March 2002 10:43, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > > > .i 1mai ganai roda nebdatka gi da blabi > > > .i 2mai ro nebdatka cu blabi > > > > To be on the safe side, {roda zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi da blabi} (the > > quantifier inside the conditional but with scope over the whole leads > > sometimes to unexpected results). The first is, I think, universally > agreed > > to be non-importing. The second is also, according to xorxes, is > importing > > according to me (and, I would say, Lojban generally). > > Okay, so how do we distinguish "Everything is white if it's a swan" from > "If > everything is a swan, then something is white"? > {roda zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi da blabi} vs. {ganai roda nebdatka gi de blabi}, a distinctly different variable is helpful (though you will get an argument about whether it is strictly required -- I think it is in cases where the quantifier binds only part of the complex sentence, as in the -- equivalent to the second above -- {da zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi de blabi}. --part1_e4.24118090.29be7166_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2002 9:53:31 AM Central Standard Time, phma@webjockey.net writes:


Subj:Re: [lojban] More about quantifiers
Date:3/11/2002 9:53:31 AM Central Standard Time
From:phma@webjockey.net
To:lojban@yahoogroups.com
Sent from the Internet



On Monday 11 March 2002 10:43, pycyn@aol.com wrote:
> > .i 1mai ganai roda nebdatka gi da blabi
> > .i 2mai ro nebdatka cu blabi
>
> To be on the safe side, {roda zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi da blabi} (the
> quantifier inside the conditional but with scope over the whole leads
> sometimes to unexpected results). The first is, I think, universally agreed
> to be non-importing.  The second is also, according to xorxes, is importing
> according to me (and, I would say, Lojban generally).

Okay, so how do we distinguish "Everything is white if it's a swan" from "If
everything is a swan, then something is white"?


{roda zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi da blabi} vs. {ganai roda nebdatka gi de blabi}, a distinctly different variable is helpful (though you will get an argument about whether it is strictly required -- I think it is in cases where the quantifier binds only part of the complex sentence, as in the -- equivalent to the second above -- {da zo'u ganai da nebdatka gi de blabi}. --part1_e4.24118090.29be7166_boundary--