From pycyn@aol.com Fri Mar 15 11:51:11 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 15 Mar 2002 19:51:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 71712 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 19:51:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2002 19:51:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 19:51:10 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.187.4de1ce5 (4013) for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:50:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <187.4de1ce5.29c3aa9f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:50:55 EST Subject: RECORD:Quantifiers To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_187.4de1ce5.29c3aa9f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_187.4de1ce5.29c3aa9f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (A summary of the recent discussion, with allowance that some involved may not quite agree with some points here.) 1. There are four patterns of quantification in Lojban: {Q broda}, {Q da poi broda} and {Q da zo'u ... da broda} and {Q da broda}. The first two belong together, the first being an abbreviated form of the second when possible. The second two also belong together, the second being an abbreviated form of the first when possible. The ultimate basic form of quantification is the third form; others are defined in terms of this as abbreviations in complex situations. 2. {Q (da poi) broda} with an unmarked Q, presupposes that the set of broda has members, is not the empty set. This presupposition can be overridden by using a negative quantifier {Q ni'u} (which automatically changes the internal quantifier on {lo broda} to {ro ni'u} ) or by returning to the explicit forms of unrestricted quantification ("uni-sortal" -- variable ranging over everything, not just over brodas). 3. In returning a sentence to basic notation, unmarked Qs are interpreted only after all operations have been performed (especially moving negations around) and after sentences which are not conjunctions in the ultimate form are prefixed with {ge de broda gi} for every {Q (da poi) broda} in the sentence. Similarly, {Q ni'u} is interpreted after prefixing {ganai de broda gi} to the basic sentence if it is not a conditional. 4. For unmarked Qs in the {Q (da poi) broda} format, all of the usual negation moves hold: ro = no... naku = naku mei'ro = naku su'o ... su'o and so on for all the regular quantifiers of the Aristotelian set (A = ro, E = no, I = su'o, O = me'iro). With negative quantifiers {Q ni'u} the quantifier inside a negation will be non-negative and, conversely an unmarked quantifier in side a negation will result in a negative quantifer. These latter factors are only relevant when and where negative quantifirs are used. --part1_187.4de1ce5.29c3aa9f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (A summary of the recent discussion, with allowance that some involved may not quite agree with some points here.)

1. There are four patterns of quantification in Lojban: {Q broda}, {Q da poi broda} and {Q da zo'u ... da broda} and {Q da broda}. The first two belong together, the first being an abbreviated form of the second when possible. The second two also belong together, the second being an abbreviated form of the first when possible. The ultimate basic form of quantification is the third form; others are defined in terms of this as abbreviations in complex situations.

2. {Q (da poi) broda} with an unmarked Q, presupposes that the set of broda has members, is not the empty set. This presupposition can be overridden by using a negative quantifier {Q ni'u} (which automatically changes the internal quantifier on {lo broda} to {ro ni'u} ) or by returning to the explicit forms of unrestricted quantification ("uni-sortal" -- variable ranging over everything, not just over brodas).

3. In returning a sentence to basic notation, unmarked Qs are interpreted only after all operations have been performed (especially moving negations around) and after sentences which are not conjunctions in the ultimate form are prefixed with {ge de broda gi} for every {Q (da poi) broda} in the sentence. Similarly, {Q ni'u} is interpreted after prefixing {ganai de broda gi} to the basic sentence if it is not a conditional.

4. For unmarked Qs in the {Q (da poi) broda} format, all of the usual negation moves hold: ro = no... naku = naku mei'ro = naku su'o ... su'o and so on for all the regular quantifiers of the Aristotelian set (A = ro, E = no, I = su'o, O = me'iro). With negative quantifiers {Q ni'u} the quantifier inside a negation will be non-negative and, conversely an unmarked quantifier in side a negation will result in a negative quantifer. These latter factors are only relevant when and where negative quantifirs are used. --part1_187.4de1ce5.29c3aa9f_boundary--