From pycyn@aol.com Fri Mar 29 15:20:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 29 Mar 2002 23:20:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 71970 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2002 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.33) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 23:20:19 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.11.) id r.64.1cebe421 (4586) for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:20:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <64.1cebe421.29d650ae@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:20:14 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: le ze romoi selsku be la Yecus To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_64.1cebe421.29d650ae_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_64.1cebe421.29d650ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/29/2002 12:50:37 PM Central Standard Time,=20 Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de writes: > > doi cevni be mi ki'u ma do cliva mi >=20 > brobau: =E9li, =E9li, l=E1ma sabath=E1ni. What exactly is the last word's= meaning?=20 > =3D >=20 My text seems to have "sabachthani" but I don't trust myself reading Hebrew= =20 characters. It always gets translated as "you have forsaken" but I did not= =20 have the paitience to figure what more was involved in forsaking beyond=20 leaving. Surely "in the lurch" is involved, as is a measure of surprise and= =20 disappointment (frustrated trust). <> doi papap fi ledo xance fa mi lacri dunda lemi pruxi=20 It's translated differently into German by M. Luther: Vater, in Deine H=E4n= de=3D *empfehle* (recommand) ich meinen Geist.> English has "commend" pretty regularly. I just don't know just what that=20 involves. But, as xorxes notes, giving something to a hand is clearly off= =20 base. Maybe "entrust" would be closer -- I don't think the spirit (or soul= )=20 is asking for a job. <(BTW, interesting question raised by PC: is it *ruach* in the sense of "'r= u=3D ach ha'koresh" - don't think so - rather: "'nefesh" or in=20 the sense of "leha'chazir" or "lehashiv eth *hanshamah*")> I don't think any of the languages involved are too clear on the difference= s=20 (nor am I, come to that) but some sorting would be useful -- and probably n= ot=20 just for Bible trats. --part1_64.1cebe421.29d650ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/29/2002 12:50:= 37 PM Central Standard Time, Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de writes:


> doi cevni be mi ki'u ma = do cliva mi

brobau: =E9li, =E9li, l=E1ma sabath=E1ni. What exactly is the last word's m= eaning? =3D


My text seems to have "sabachthani" but I don't trust myself reading Hebrew= characters.  It always gets translated as "you have forsaken" but I d= id not have the paitience to figure what more was involved in forsaking bey= ond leaving. Surely "in the lurch" is involved, as is a measure of surprise= and disappointment (frustrated trust).

<> doi papap fi ledo xance fa mi lacri dunda lemi pruxi

It's translated differently into German by M. Luther: Vater, in Deine H=E4n= de=3D

*empfehle* (recommand) ich meinen Geist.>

English has "commend" pretty regularly.  I just don't know just what t= hat involves.  But, as xorxes notes, giving something to a hand is cle= arly off base.  Maybe "entrust" would be closer -- I don't think the s= pirit (or soul) is asking for a job.

<(BTW, interesting question raised by PC: is it *ruach* in the sense of = "'ru=3D

ach ha'koresh" - don't think so - rather: "'nefesh" or in
the sense of "leha'chazir" or "lehashiv eth *hanshamah*")>

I don't think any of the languages involved are too clear on the difference= s (nor am I, come to that) but some sorting would be useful -- and probably= not just for Bible trats.



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