From pycyn@aol.com Wed Apr 03 18:02:00 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 4 Apr 2002 02:02:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 42127 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2002 02:02:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2002 02:02:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d02.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.34) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2002 02:02:00 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.103.132fee1a (25715) for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:01:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <103.132fee1a.29dd0e0f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:01:51 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] ce'u once again To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_103.132fee1a.29dd0e0f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_103.132fee1a.29dd0e0f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/3/2002 4:29:08 PM Central Standard Time, araizen@newmail.net writes: > Subj:Re: [lojban] ce'u once again > Date:4/3/2002 4:29:08 PM Central Standard Time > From:araizen@newmail.net > To:lojban@yahoogroups.com > Sent from the Internet > > > > la pycyn. cusku di'e > > > > No it doesn't. 'zmadu' requires a unary property in the 3rd place. > > > > > Why? Why not say "is to the left of"? > > I'm not sure what you are suggesting should be replaced by 'is to the left > of', but 'zmadu' compares the result of applying the x3 property to x1 with > the result of applying it to x2 and claims that the former 'is more than' > the latter. > > The best I can come up with for a binary property in x3 of 'zmadu' is that > the binary property would specify the relationship between x1 and x2, maybe > something like 'la fred. la djordj. zmadu le ka ce'u ralju le cecmu be > ce'u' --> 'Fred is more than George in being the head of his community.' > This might be a cute trick, but it's very different from the normal use of > 'zmadu' and in any case isn't a way to interpret the sentence this > discussion is based on. ('lenu la fred. bilma cu zmadu lenu la djordj. > bilma > kei leka ce'u rinka leka ce'u ruble') In that sentence, the second argument > for the binary property isn't itself a sumti of the main bridi, and so at > best it's very confusing. > I suppose you mean {la fred la djordj cu zmadu le du'u ce'u ralju le cecmu be cy}, which is technically a 1-place predicate. If you do mean the second {ce'u} then it is a free floating variable that makes the whole rather obscure, being essentially universal (relevance conditions assumed) -- but what I had in mind. What is the trick it is supposed to cutely do? --part1_103.132fee1a.29dd0e0f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/3/2002 4:29:08 PM Central Standard Time, araizen@newmail.net writes:


Subj:Re: [lojban] ce'u once again
Date:4/3/2002 4:29:08 PM Central Standard Time
From:araizen@newmail.net
To:lojban@yahoogroups.com
Sent from the Internet



la pycyn. cusku di'e

> > No it doesn't. 'zmadu' requires a unary property in the 3rd place.
> >
> Why? Why not say "is to the left of"?

I'm not sure what you are suggesting should be replaced by 'is to the left
of', but 'zmadu' compares the result of applying the x3 property to x1 with
the result of applying it to x2 and claims that the former 'is more than'
the latter.

The best I can come up with for a binary property in x3 of 'zmadu' is that
the binary property would specify the relationship between x1 and x2, maybe
something like 'la fred. la djordj. zmadu le ka ce'u ralju le cecmu be
ce'u' --> 'Fred is more than George in being the head of his community.'
This might be a cute trick, but it's very different from the normal use of
'zmadu' and in any case isn't a way to interpret the sentence this
discussion is based on. ('lenu la fred. bilma cu zmadu lenu la djordj. bilma
kei leka ce'u rinka leka ce'u ruble') In that sentence, the second argument
for the binary property isn't itself a sumti of the main bridi, and so at
best it's very confusing.


I suppose you mean {la fred la djordj cu zmadu le du'u ce'u ralju le cecmu be cy}, which is technically a 1-place predicate.  If you do mean the second {ce'u} then it is a free floating variable that makes the whole rather obscure, being essentially universal (relevance conditions assumed) -- but what I had in mind.  What is the trick it is supposed to cutely do? --part1_103.132fee1a.29dd0e0f_boundary--