From araizen@newmail.net Wed Apr 03 22:33:38 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 4 Apr 2002 06:33:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 30560 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2002 06:33:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2002 06:33:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mxout2.netvision.net.il) (194.90.9.21) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2002 06:33:36 -0000 Received: from default ([62.0.180.135]) by mxout2.netvision.net.il (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Sep 5 2001)) with SMTP id <0GU100G9C67X70@mxout2.netvision.net.il> for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:33:35 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:29:02 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] ce'u once again To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <00c801c1dbab$8d453c60$87b4003e@default> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <187.5f8e822.29dd0e0a@aol.com> From: Adam Raizen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3063669 X-Yahoo-Profile: araizen la pycyn. cusku di'e > > le te bilma be la fred le te bilma be la djordj. cu zmadu le ka ce'u blegau > > le bilma be le nei 'te bilma be fi la djordj.' and 'le bilma be fi le nei', of course. My mistake. > > or > > > > le nu la fred bilma kei le nu la djordj. bilma cu zmadu le ka ce'u blegau > > le > > se nunbilma be le nei > > > > Can a disease really gasnu anything? It doesn't seem to be a person or > agent. Nor does an event. I think we have to stick with {rinka/ri'a} I think 'gasnu' is the most general predicate for causation, and it works with all kinds of things. However, if you disagree, change it to 'rinka', it's not the important point. > Does {le nei} get the right thing either time? In the first it seems to be > the disease but comes out as a symptom -- unless it is theill person himself > as a symptom or the cause of the weakness as a symptom (exactly which > predication counts as the current one is obscure, but none of them seem to > work). Much the same problems occur in the second case, though the choice of > corect readings is somewhat harder to spell out in English, except as > possibly superfluous. 'nei' refers to the current bridi, and so 'le nei' refers to the x1 of blegau in each case. Selbri are not bridi, but if you want to be obstinate and insist that they are, change 'le nei' to 'cy.' mu'o mi'e .adam.