From pycyn@aol.com Thu Apr 04 16:38:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 5 Apr 2002 00:38:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 66715 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2002 00:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2002 00:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2002 00:38:08 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.9c.1dc54a77 (4529) for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:38:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9c.1dc54a77.29de4bed@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:38:05 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] ce'u once again To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9c.1dc54a77.29de4bed_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_9c.1dc54a77.29de4bed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/4/2002 3:16:03 PM Central Standard Time, jcowan@reutershealth.com writes: > > In particular, a reviewer suggested to me that I can't claim a > > property applying to a specific individual is a fact, with the > > example "Fred's illness is more debilitating than George's". , > > I think the problem is that "Fred's illness" is ambiguous between > "the kind of illness Fred has" and "the particular instance of > illness that Fred has". Cancer is undoubtedly more debilitating than > diarrhea, but if Fred's cancer is in remission it may be less > debilitating than George's full-blast travelers' trots. > > The "instance of" is an event, but the "kind of" is probably not > an event. > Thanks. I was trying to figure out what else was strange about {'le te bilma be fi la fred. le te bilma be fi la djordj. cu zmadu le ka ce'u bleri'a'} and it is exactly that shift from the event to the disease. Note also that a fact has to occur, whereas an event (which application of a property to an individual clearly is) exists even if it does not occur (or, strictly, obtain). --part1_9c.1dc54a77.29de4bed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/4/2002 3:16:03 PM Central Standard Time, jcowan@reutershealth.com writes:


> In particular, a reviewer suggested to me that I can't claim a
> property applying to a specific individual is a fact, with the
> example "Fred's illness is more debilitating than George's". ,

I think the problem is that "Fred's illness" is ambiguous between
"the kind of illness Fred has" and "the particular instance of
illness that Fred has". Cancer is undoubtedly more debilitating than
diarrhea, but if Fred's cancer is in remission it may be less
debilitating than George's full-blast travelers' trots.

The "instance of" is an event, but the "kind of" is probably not
an event.


Thanks. I was trying to figure out what else was strange about {'le te bilma be fi la fred. le te bilma be fi la djordj. cu zmadu le ka ce'u bleri'a'} and it is exactly that shift from the event to the disease.
Note also that a fact has to occur, whereas an event (which application of a property to an individual clearly is) exists even if it does not occur (or, strictly, obtain).

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