From araizen@newmail.net Wed Apr 10 09:16:42 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 10 Apr 2002 16:16:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 79103 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2002 15:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2002 15:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mxout2.netvision.net.il) (194.90.9.21) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2002 15:41:18 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.0.182.52]) by mxout2.netvision.net.il (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Sep 5 2001)) with SMTP id <0GUC009EUZKQJ7@mxout2.netvision.net.il> for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:41:16 +0300 (IDT) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:40:39 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] ce'u once again To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <09df01c1e0ae$8118c4e0$e5b7003e@oemcomputer> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: From: Adam Raizen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3063669 X-Yahoo-Profile: araizen la pycyn. cusku di'e > 'nei' refers to the current bridi, and so 'le nei' refers to the x1 of > blegau in each case. Selbri are not bridi, but if you want to be > obstinate and insist that they are, change 'le nei' to 'cy.'> > > OK, what you meant was {le bilma be fi le nei}, as several other places. The > problem with {nei} is that it is in three bridi (in some sense of that term) > and there is then the question of which is the "current" one. You say it is > the middle one of the three and the closest one that is not an immediate > sumti, so I take it that your definition of "current" comes down to that > specification. That seems a good choice, but not an obvious one. I don't > understand the remark about selbri -- they are obviously not bridi, but you > can scarcely have bridi without them -- or them without bridi. 'le + SELBRI' may logically imply a bridi, but grammatically it requires a selbri, not a bridi. The BNF definition is: sumti-6 = (LA | LE) # sumti-tail /KU#/ (among other things) sumti-tail = [sumti-6 [relative-clauses]] sumti-tail-1 | relative-clauses sumti-tail-1 sumti-tail-1 = [quantifier] selbri [relative clauses] | quantifier sumti ^^^^^^ If you want to say, e.g. 'the one who loves his/herself' you need to use 'sevzi' as in 'le sezyprami' or use a construction with a bridi, like 'ko'a poi prami le nei'. mu'o mi'e .adam.