From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Thu Apr 11 06:03:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 11 Apr 2002 13:03:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 17924 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2002 13:03:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2002 13:03:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Apr 2002 13:03:03 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:35:18 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:02:56 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:02:33 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] brify Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Greg: #> **I haven't listened to this**, but I find it surprising if Bjoern is a = German #> speaker, since it would imply that he is speaking Lojban without a #> German accent but with an English accent. I may well be wrong, but #> I suspect that Robin's perceptions of the e/y boundary are tainted #> by English. # #neither have I (and maybe I should before emitting loads of hypotheses) bu= t #I suspect Bjoern's pronunciation is something like the long schwa at the e= nd #of german words like "besser" [bEs@]?? In the German accents I'm familiar with, that would be [bEs(@)A], where [A] =3D turned a -- i.e. a basically A-type sound. But why would a German speaker pronounce _brife_ as though it were _brifer_? Steven: #and: #it doesn't surprise me in the least. the same thing happened with german= =20 #speakers of esperanto at the augsburg congress. they invariably pronounce= d=20 #the final '-e' as a schwa, even when the rest of their pronunciation was=20 #quite good. it used to irritate me a lot. if the same thing happens in=20 #lojban, it just shows how strong some habits are. But what I don't understand is how you can consider it a strong habit, when final -e in German is E-like rather than schwa-like. It seems rather mysterious that Germans should in their Lojban and Esperanto speech all tend to introduce a mispronunciation whose aetiology is not transparent= ly a carryover from their native language. Maybe there are German accents I'm not familiar with in which final -e is schwa-like; my limited exposure = to=20 them has a southern bias. --And.