From lojbab@lojban.org Sun Apr 14 04:04:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 14 Apr 2002 11:04:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 16999 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2002 11:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2002 11:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (216.231.54.78) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2002 11:04:48 -0000 Received: from [207.226.56.187] (helo=bob.lojban.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 16whp1-0003IU-00 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 04:05:31 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020414070011.0482c720@digitalkingdom.org> X-Sender: lojbab@digitalkingdom.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 07:05:05 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Tense and attitudinals In-Reply-To: <20020413163023.BDCC01276C@manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: lojbab X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab At 06:51 PM 4/13/02 +0300, Robin Turner wrote: > > Attitudinals refer to the speaker and to the instant they are > > speaking. There are only two exceptions, and that's pei and dai. I > > think you'll need an experimental cmavo for that, which I will > > start using myself. While you're at it, you might like to create > > one to project emotions to a third party, as well. > >I was hoping there'd be an obscure event-contour, a sort of >"with reference to another event". Thus Precisely what ba'a/ba'anai is for in an attitudinal context. An attitudinal reference to an event is either recalling the past, anticipating the future, or experiencing in the present. You are still feeling the attitude in the present, so the only relevant information is how you emotionally view the time separation of the event. (Michael Helsem or someone else will now demonstrate the Lojbanic poetry of anticipating the past or recalling the future, hopefully without time travel %^) lojbab