From robin@BILKENT.EDU.TR Tue Apr 16 02:38:02 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 16 Apr 2002 09:38:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 36304 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2002 09:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2002 09:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr) (139.179.30.24) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2002 09:38:00 -0000 Received: from there (neo.fen.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.97.69]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with SMTP id DC5B9127DF for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:11:35 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Organization: Bilkent University To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] x2 of 'le' Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:33:18 +0300 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020416101135.DC5B9127DF@manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr> From: Robin Turner X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810606 X-Yahoo-Profile: digambaranath On Monday 15 April 2002 14:11, Ted Reed wrote: > On Sunday 14 April 2002 21:53, Ted Reed wrote: > > I'm not sure if something like this already exists, but I got the > > idea and decided to send it in. > > > > If I've learned it correctly, 'le' basically means "that/those > > which is/are described as ..." What it doesn't specify is who > > describes it as that. Take this example: I think "le" is more like "that which I call" - by definiton it is the speaker doing the calling, so cannot be applied to anyone else (apart from anything else, you'd then need a "lo" in front of the whole shebang). You could perhaps use a modal, though I'm not sure which one would work. "cu'u" wouldn't work, since "le" refers to the thing, not the utterance. "du'o" might be possible, but, for example "le melbi ninmu du'o la ted." to me implies that Ted _knows_ that the thing referred to is a beautiful woman, whereas Ted's own utterance, "le melbi ninmu" does not imply this. robin.tr -- "Bravo Epictetus!" - Epictetus Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent Universitesi Ankara 06533 Turkey http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin