From rizen@ispwest.com Tue Apr 16 03:19:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: rizen@ispwest.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 16 Apr 2002 10:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 99711 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2002 10:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2002 10:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ispwestemail.aceweb.net) (216.52.245.18) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2002 10:17:54 -0000 Received: from there (unverified [66.2.47.13]) by ispwestemail.aceweb.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.2.222) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:14:18 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] x2 of 'le' Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:14:49 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020416101135.DC5B9127DF@manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr> In-Reply-To: <20020416101135.DC5B9127DF@manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Ted Reed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=104181342 X-Yahoo-Profile: xrizen On Tuesday 16 April 2002 02:33, Robin Turner wrote: > On Monday 15 April 2002 14:11, Ted Reed wrote: > > On Sunday 14 April 2002 21:53, Ted Reed wrote: > > > I'm not sure if something like this already exists, but I got the > > > idea and decided to send it in. > > > > > > If I've learned it correctly, 'le' basically means "that/those > > > which is/are described as ..." What it doesn't specify is who > > > describes it as that. Take this example: > > I think "le" is more like "that which I call" - by definiton it is > the speaker doing the calling, so cannot be applied to anyone else I thought 'la' was 'that which I call'? > (apart from anything else, you'd then need a "lo" in front of the > whole shebang). You could perhaps use a modal, though I'm not sure > which one would work. "cu'u" wouldn't work, since "le" refers to the > thing, not the utterance. "du'o" might be possible, but, for example > "le melbi ninmu du'o la ted." to me implies that Ted _knows_ that the > thing referred to is a beautiful woman, whereas Ted's own utterance, > "le melbi ninmu" does not imply this. > > robin.tr -- rizen