From ragnarok@pobox.com Sat Apr 27 17:02:28 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 28 Apr 2002 00:02:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 27879 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2002 00:02:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2002 00:02:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2002 00:02:27 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.90] by intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AC16A7580112; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:02:30 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] What's the logic behind Lojban's sound system? Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:02:32 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >1) Diphthongs ai, au, ei, oi, ia, ie, ii, io, iu, ua, >ue, ui, uo, uu are all allowed but not eu, ou. Why? This one weirds me out, too. >3) Why is voicing used for all stops and fricatives >except x? Because somebody went a little crazy. This is discussed on the Wiki. We want our gh sound! >4) Why are there so many gaps in the phoneme chart? >--the labial order has two stops (p/b), two fricatives >(f/v) and a nasal (m), the dentalveolar order has also >two stops (t/d), two fricatives (s/z) and a nasal (n), >but then the alveolopalatal order has only two >fricatives (c/j) and the velar order only two stops (k/g) >and one fricative (x)-- Think of k/g as palatal stops that got moved back a little to make them more distinct, and x as something that really shouldn't be there at all. It doesn't fit. >5) Why does lojban use such a rare phonemical >opposition as /h/ vs. /x/, which moreover is found >in just one of the languages it takes as 'models' >(only Arabic contrasts them)? It doesn't. An equally correct pronunciation of ' is as an unvoiced th sound. >6) Why, on the other hand, doesn't it use /N/, which >is a very frequent phoneme of Chinese and appears also >in English and Hindi? Just a guess: no convinient grapheme. If so, quite illogical. Admittedly, I find it easier to pronounce /mk/ than /nk/ without it morphing into /mpk/, /ntk/, or /Nk/. If we want to use /N/ by default for n, it maximizes the distinctness of the nasals. And since the difference between s and c isn't allowed as all that separates two gisms, n and N isn't. But we don't even have that distinction in lujvo, unlike the s/c one. A question of my own: What is with the spelling 'c' for /S/??? --la kreig.daniyl. 'segu le balvi temci gi mi'o renvi lo purci .i ga le fonxa janbe gi du mi' -la djimis.BYFet pygypy gubmau ckiku nacycme: 0x5C3A1E74 (laldo), 0x22C68020 (citno)