From rizen@ispwest.com Fri May 03 14:02:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: rizen@ispwest.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 3 May 2002 21:02:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 45272 invoked from network); 3 May 2002 21:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2002 21:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ispwestemail.aceweb.net) (66.12.114.252) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2002 21:02:08 -0000 Received: from ispwest.com (unverified [66.2.47.124]) by ispwestemail.aceweb.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.3.226) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 13:57:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD2FA45.1090402@ispwest.com> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:59:49 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0rc1) Gecko/20020417 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban Subject: 'Nother IRC Conversation. Comments? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ted Reed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=104181342 X-Yahoo-Profile: xrizen This one is re: ponse and cultural neutrality. Comments? (This is actually a couple days late. My ISP's SMTP server was really screwing up...) so "have" covers more than "own" just like we say "i have three children" frankly to me, there is owning, and there is possessing, and they are very different. The american indians didnt 'own' the land, they didnt believe in owning land. But they used it regularly, lived on it, so on. cein: Technically, people own their children, too. technically, property is impossible, and God owns you all If the child leaves their parents without permission, they can be hunted down and returned. I think the line between ownership and possesion is the legal backing. yes, technically "own" is an artificial thing, requiring a state or authority but i don't know how much more politics i can take on such a day as this which lends itself so well to real linguistic discussion or the ability to defend your ownership (which is just a kind of authority) To "own" something is to possess it with legal authority to keep it or have it returned to you if it is taken. Perhaps we should start a revolt. And start using ponse to mean possess and a lujvo with ponse and "legal" to mean own. that makes sense and on May Day no less heh hehe cein: Forgive me if I miss the connection. hit the mailing list with something about it. this might already have been worked out, at least, as it relates to lojban 1. May Day, First of May, May 1 -- (observed in the United States to celebrate the coming of spring; observed in Russia in honor of labor) Heh. k * bancus pastes some of this in an e-mail. -- rizen/bancus