From Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de Thu Jun 20 22:22:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 Jun 2002 05:22:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 56181 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2002 05:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2002 05:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailgw5.gedas.de) (139.1.44.13) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2002 05:22:23 -0000 Received: from mailgw5.gedas.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw5.gedas.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07879 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:22:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from blnsem05.de.gedas.vwg (blnsem05.gedas.de [139.1.84.49]) by mailgw5.gedas.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07864; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:22:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by blnsem05.de.gedas.vwg with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:22:21 +0200 Message-ID: To: "'And Rosta'" , lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] Automatic Lojban -> English translation? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:22:20 +0200 Return-Receipt-To: "Newton, Philip" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Newton, Philip" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23036112 X-Yahoo-Profile: elder_newton And Rosta wrote: > I haven't used jbofi'e, but I'll take your word for it. What > does jbofi'e do with cmavo? Depends; it generally seems fairly smart about it. For example, terminators such as ke and kei and so are generally left untranslated; things such as "le mi cukta" turn into "le 'the' mi cukta 'book(s) [of] I,me'". Things such as "be" are also generally left out. Attidunals are translated in curly brackets e.g. ".ui '{happiness..}'". Some cmavo expand into phrases such as "next utterance" (for di'e). In short, it handles different cmavo in different ways. > Ideally, my preference would be for the commonest cmavo to be > untranslated, and the rarer cmavo to be translated and tagged > with their selmaho. But it doesn't attach selma'o. Try it out at http://www.epita.fr/~poss_r/lojban/jboski.html by feeding it a sentence you're curious about. The normal output is (IMO) more legible; it uses HTML to colorise things (e.g. place values are red-brown, Lojban is black and bold, English is blue and italics). If you specify "lunbe", you get the output you'd get with the command-line version -- four lines for each line (Lojban, English, place values, bracket numbers). Ah yes, it puts brackets ( [ < << >> > ] ) around things to group them, and puts numbers under them to help you match up opening and closing brackets (and also so you it refer to them later in the gloss, e.g. "referent of #27" or whatever). > you wouldn't actually have to memorize the vocab. But you would have > to know the grammar, and the semantics of the cmavo. True. I do make use of the ma'oste occasionally to help me figure out a bit of jbofi'e output. But you can get part of the way without knowing cmavo IMO, though you'd still need to know rudiments of grammar to figure out what things such as "the event(s) of I,me [is, does] go-ing the trading place(s)" mean; if you don't know the lenu construction, "the event of XXX-ing" may not help much, either. mu'omi'e filip. [email copies appreciated] -- Philip Newton All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.