From pycyn@aol.com Fri Jul 19 08:49:39 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 19 Jul 2002 15:49:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 56111 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2002 15:49:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2002 15:49:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d10.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2002 15:49:38 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 9.184.b3ddb19 (3959) for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:49:33 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] talca = challenge To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 3:47:07 AM Central Daylight Time, gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch writes: << > In what sense does talca mean challenge? > > How would I say "he challenged him to a duel" How does the "duel" become > x3, > a property? >> {talsa}? Good question -- although the distinction between a property and an event is kinda small in a lot of cases. I would suppose {ko'a talsa ko'e le du'u ce'u damba ko'a} or some such, although {lenu damba} or {lenu ko'e damba ko'a} seems more natural. << Apart from defy, challenge could also mean "hindered" (horizontally challenged ;-) or "confronted" >> Does "challenge" mean "defy"? (can one defy to or defy at?). The "hindered" meaning is just pc for "deficient in" (except for "circumferentially challenged" which is never applied to anorectics, only obese). In any case, the notes on gi'uste suggest {nandu} for challenging situations -- that is without an agent, but with an abstract x1. "Confront" (and maybe "defy") seem to fit the definition of {talsa} pretty well, since they are usually over issues -- closer to properties than duels are. --part1_184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 3:47:07 AM Central Daylight Time, gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch writes:
<<

In what sense does talca mean challenge?

How would I say "he challenged him to a duel" How does the "duel" become x3,
a property?

>>
{talsa}?

Good question -- although the distinction between a property and an event is kinda small in a lot of cases. I would suppose {ko'a talsa ko'e le du'u ce'u damba ko'a} or some such, although {lenu damba} or {lenu ko'e damba ko'a} seems more natural.

<<
Apart from defy, challenge could also mean "hindered" (horizontally
challenged ;-) or "confronted"
>>

Does "challenge" mean "defy"? (can one defy to or defy at?). The "hindered" meaning is just pc for "deficient in" (except for "circumferentially challenged" which is never applied to anorectics, only obese). In any case, the notes on gi'uste suggest {nandu} for challenging situations -- that is without an agent, but with an abstract x1.
"Confront" (and maybe "defy") seem to fit the definition of {talsa} pretty well, since they are usually over issues -- closer to properties than duels are.
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