From pycyn@aol.com Wed Jul 31 15:28:19 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 31 Jul 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 44093 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d07.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.39) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id r.198.a9f31f3 (18710) for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <198.a9f31f3.2a79be7c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:28:12 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Parliamentary Procedures To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_198.a9f31f3.2a79be7c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_198.a9f31f3.2a79be7c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2002 2:51:44 PM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: << > >Did you mean {penmi}, or do you really mean {pensi}? > >I like {bavypu'i} for "postpone". > > >> > > I suppose that compound is malylatno -- what, after all, do you put > >where > >and on what (the table)? > > Well, it's metaphorical, whatever it is that you're postponing, > you put it in the future. Are space-time metaphors not allowed > in Lojban? How would you say "postpone", whether or not it is > the word we want here? > >> No complaints about the {bav}/"post", just about the {punji}/"pone," which has the literal meaning of a physical placement. I can see putting an item on an agenda with no trouble, but am less easy (until necessity arises) with putting something in a time. Of couse, that also leaves the interrupt-and-resume nature of tabling, which was what led me to {denpa} in the first place (the place structure is not ideal, but better than, say, {dicra}, which lacks a start-up-again). The basic postpose is probably just {bavlygasnu}, "do later." That is certainly what I say when I postpose -- as I usually do. << >I meant {pensi}, the general term for considering >things, apparently. And it is just (official) consideration that is being >intermitted. My first reading was that you meant {le nu pensi} to be the x3 of denpa rather than the x4, taking a break to think things through. I have trouble associating {pensi} with what one does at these meetings. >> Me too, but I can't find another gismu -- nor whip up a good lujvo -- to come "deliberations." Maybe falling back on {ritli} again is called for. << Is {penmi} really about bumping into one another? Isn't that {janli}? {penmi} has an x3 which could be an event of whatever it is that one does at a meeting. (stidi/casnu/pajni/jdice maybe even some pensi?) >> Hey, {casnu} is pretty much what I was looking for -- talk, not necessarily intelligent nor decisive ({jdice} maybe, but not {pajni}, I think). {penmi} appears to be primarily binary -- a meets b -- and adding {simxu} merely means that each pair within the group joins up at some time, not that all meet all at one time -- which is what this "meeting" is about -- maybe not bumping (question-begging epithet) like gas molecules, but not all coming together like freezing either. {penmi3} is explicitly a location, but I think an event is appropriate (space and time are all the same in Lojban, after all) but now we just have two people or all the pairs of people meeting one another at the meeting -- during the social hour probably --and still nothing gfor the meeting itself. {nu pensi -- or cansa -- kansa} is no better, for other reasons. --part1_198.a9f31f3.2a79be7c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2002 2:51:44 PM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:

<<

>Did you mean {penmi}, or do you really mean {pensi}?
>I like {bavypu'i} for "postpone".
> >>
> I suppose that compound is malylatno -- what, after all, do you put
>where
>and on what (the table)?

Well, it's metaphorical, whatever it is that you're postponing,
you put it in the future. Are space-time metaphors not allowed
in Lojban? How would you say "postpone", whether or not it is
the word we want here?

>>
No complaints about the {bav}/"post", just about the {punji}/"pone," which has the literal meaning of a physical placement. I can see putting an item on an agenda with no trouble, but am less easy (until necessity arises) with putting something in a time. Of couse, that also leaves the interrupt-and-resume nature of tabling, which was what led me to {denpa} in the first place (the place structure is not ideal, but better than, say, {dicra}, which lacks a start-up-again). The basic postpose is probably just {bavlygasnu}, "do later." That is certainly what I say when I postpose -- as I usually do.

<<
>I meant {pensi}, the general term for considering
>things, apparently. And it is just (official) consideration that is being
>intermitted.

My first reading was that you meant {le nu pensi} to be the
x3 of denpa rather than the x4, taking a break to think things
through. I have trouble associating {pensi} with what one
does at these meetings.
>>

Me too, but I can't find another gismu -- nor whip up a good lujvo -- to come "deliberations." Maybe falling back on {ritli} again is called for.

<<
Is {penmi} really about bumping into one another? Isn't that
{janli}? {penmi} has an x3 which could be an event of whatever
it is that one does at a meeting. (stidi/casnu/pajni/jdice
maybe even some pensi?)
>>

Hey, {casnu} is pretty much what I was looking for -- talk, not necessarily intelligent nor decisive ({jdice} maybe, but not {pajni}, I think). {penmi} appears to be primarily binary -- a meets b -- and adding {simxu} merely means that each pair within the group joins up at some time, not that all meet all at one time -- which is what this "meeting" is about -- maybe not bumping (question-begging epithet) like gas molecules, but not all coming together like freezing either. {penmi3} is explicitly a location, but I think an event is appropriate (space and time are all the same in Lojban, after all) but now we just have two people or all the pairs of people meeting one another at the meeting -- during the social hour probably --and still nothing gfor the meeting itself. {nu pensi -- or cansa -- kansa} is no better, for other reasons. --part1_198.a9f31f3.2a79be7c_boundary--