From pycyn@aol.com Sun Aug 04 15:14:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 4 Aug 2002 22:14:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 58843 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 22:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2002 22:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 22:14:51 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id r.ff.1bb7787b (3956) for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:14:48 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: non-core translations To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ff.1bb7787b.2a7f0158_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_ff.1bb7787b.2a7f0158_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/4/2002 5:10:40 AM Central Daylight Time, Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de writes: > So, what for translate the list into German etc. > The only > reason for doing this, IMHO, could be to avoid an English-biased > Lojban throughout > the whole world (this view, for sure, is still nothing but wishful > thinking at the > moment). There might be a big difference in "feeling the language" > when studying > the gi'uste by means of an English-coined vocabulary or acquiring > Lojban through > German, French, Chinese or what have you. I was getting aware of this > only when > trying to translate this stuff into German and seeing the > difficulties e.g. caused > by idiomatics etc. (As for me, whether I like it or not, my Lojban is > of a > somewhat English hue :( yet, unlike many of you, I'm at least aware > of this :)) > I suspect (and hope) that the current gi'uste translations will the first steps of a bootstrapping operation (to use one of JCB's favorite words). They will attract a few people to learn Lojban and who will eventually say (in the appropriate languages) "But that isn't what the translation means!" or "Ohoh, so this word really means ..." and who will correct the translations. I think something like this should have happened -- and be happening -- with the English list over the year, but, alas, has not generally, although we have glosses enough to allow some rewriting, even (especially) of the key words. --part1_ff.1bb7787b.2a7f0158_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/4/2002 5:10:40 AM Central Daylight Time, Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de writes:


So, what for translate the list into German etc.
The only
reason for doing this, IMHO, could be to avoid an English-biased
Lojban throughout
the whole world (this view, for sure, is still nothing but wishful
thinking at the
moment). There might be a big difference in "feeling the language"
when studying
the gi'uste by means of an English-coined vocabulary or acquiring
Lojban through
German, French, Chinese or what have you. I was getting aware of this
only when
trying to translate this stuff into German and seeing the
difficulties e.g. caused
by idiomatics etc. (As for me, whether I like it or not, my Lojban is
of a
somewhat English hue :( yet, unlike many of you, I'm at least aware
of this :))

I suspect (and hope) that the current gi'uste translations will the first steps of a bootstrapping operation (to use one of JCB's favorite words). They will attract a few people to learn Lojban and who will eventually say (in the appropriate languages) "But that isn't what the translation means!" or "Ohoh, so this word really means ..." and who will correct the translations.  I think something like this should have happened  -- and be happening -- with the English list over the year, but, alas, has not generally, although we have glosses enough to allow some rewriting, even (especially) of the key words.
 --part1_ff.1bb7787b.2a7f0158_boundary--