From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Aug 12 09:06:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 45579 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.59) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:06:52 -0700 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com, Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] fu'ivla with lujvo as rafsi? Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52.0661 (UTC) FILETIME=[45C05250:01C2421A] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la filip cusku di'e >Is it possible to make type III fu'ivla using lujvo stems as pseudo-rafsi? The stem has to be a consonant ending rafsi. Anything else can cause trouble. >I ask because I saw in the Nicene Creed as translated by nitcion (see, for >example, http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9109/msg00033.html , or >nicely formatted as http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/credo ), the word >"cesprenrapostolo", which appears to me to be intended as >cespren-r-apostolo >(or possibly cespre-n-rapostolo). That is, it uses the lujvo "cesprenu" >(with pseudo-rafsi cespren-) or "cespre" as the "rafsi" of the fu'ivla. I think {cesprenrapostolo} breaks as {ce sprenrapostolo}, because "spr" is a valid initial cluster. (I'm not 100% sure this is the rule though.) In any case, the stem has to end in a consonant and the lojbanized borrowing has to start with a consonant, so neither cespre-n-rapostolo nor cespren-r-apostolo are of this type of fu'ivla. >Is this sort of thing possible? If not, what would the "orthodox" form have >to be? Something like "censrnapostolo" or "prenrnapostolo" -- or perhaps >"lijdrnapostolo"? The most orthodox forms would be {censrxapostolo}, {prenrxapostolo}, {lidjrxapostolo}. >(I'm using -rn- rather than -nr- as glue+crunchy consonant since I think >the >n- is a better crunchy, since it hearkens to the accusative "apostolon", so >the glue reverts to the default -r-.) The usual way to deal with words that start with a vowel is to add a x-. Sticking always to the same consonant has the advantage that you reduce the number of doubtful cases. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx