Subject: Re: [lojban] fu'ivla with lujvo as rafsi?

From: "Jorge Llambias" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:06:52 +0000

la filip cusku di'e

>Is it possible to make type III fu'ivla using lujvo stems as pseudo-rafsi?

The stem has to be a consonant ending rafsi. Anything else
can cause trouble.

>I ask because I saw in the Nicene Creed as translated by nitcion (see, for
>example, http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9109/msg00033.html , or
>nicely formatted as http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/credo ), the word
>"cesprenrapostolo", which appears to me to be intended as 
>cespren-r-apostolo
>(or possibly cespre-n-rapostolo). That is, it uses the lujvo "cesprenu"
>(with pseudo-rafsi cespren-) or "cespre" as the "rafsi" of the fu'ivla.

I think {cesprenrapostolo} breaks as {ce sprenrapostolo},
because "spr" is a valid initial cluster. (I'm not 100%
sure this is the rule though.)

In any case, the stem has to end in a consonant and the
lojbanized borrowing has to start with a consonant, so neither
cespre-n-rapostolo nor cespren-r-apostolo are of this type
of fu'ivla.

>Is this sort of thing possible? If not, what would the "orthodox" form have
>to be? Something like "censrnapostolo" or "prenrnapostolo" -- or perhaps
>"lijdrnapostolo"?

The most orthodox forms would be {censrxapostolo}, {prenrxapostolo},
{lidjrxapostolo}.

>(I'm using -rn- rather than -nr- as glue+crunchy consonant since I think 
>the
>n- is a better crunchy, since it hearkens to the accusative "apostolon", so
>the glue reverts to the default -r-.)

The usual way to deal with words that start with a vowel
is to add a x-. Sticking always to the same consonant has
the advantage that you reduce the number of doubtful cases.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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