From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Aug 12 17:22:15 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 13 Aug 2002 00:22:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 68246 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 00:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2002 00:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.129) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 00:22:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:22:13 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.43 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:22:13 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] space tenses Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:22:13 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2002 00:22:13.0735 (UTC) FILETIME=[78E44F70:01C2425F] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.43] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la pycyn cusku di'e ><< >>For example: {ko'a zvati le purdi za'o le nu co'a carvi}, "he keeps >being in the garden as it begins to rain", i.e. a kind of >{za'o zvati}. > >> > >That is a convenient way of doing things, I admit, and I think I came down >for it at one time or another. BUT it is using Nick's {pu'o} rule, rather >than the usual one again. Not at all! I can say {ko'a za'o zvati le purdi} to mean just the same thing. I am not transferring the superfevtive to {le nu carvi}. Nick's {pu'o} rule would have it mean that he's in the garden as it keeps starting to rain. I think you cannot force the tagged sumti to be the axis/origin in all cases. For example, in the case of the ZEhAs and VEhAs, the sumti is the measure of the temporal or spatial extension over which the event takes place. In the case of TAhEs and ROIs it is the interval in which the repetitions happen. For example {pare'u le cabdei} means "the first time today", so there may have been other times in other days. {ciroi le purlamjeftu} is "three times last week", {ru'i le nu jamna} is "continuously during the war", {za'e lo mentu be li mu} is "for five minutes", and so on. In all cases the tag could be taken to the main selbri and the sense kept the same, only not as precise. The sumti as axis/origin really only works for PUs and FAhAs, which give the position of the main even relative to that origin. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx