Subject: Phrases for language learners

From: "Newton, Philip" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:54:38 +0200

While I was learning my most recent natlang, I frequently employed some
phrases to help me understand other people or how to express myself. Here
are the phrases as well as my attempts at translating them into Lojban;
comments and corrections are extremely welcome.

I'm especially unsure about whether text can simply be quoted, or has to be
abstracted or de-abstracted somehow, before it can be used as the argument
of such questions.

Also, how would one answer such questions? Simply with the information
queried? (Example: "ma valsi zo dog la lojban" - "gerku")

* "What does ___ mean?"

This refers to a word, a phrase, or a sentence -- it is open whether the
answer is to be a translation into English or an explanation in the language
itself. So a German asking "What does 'dog' mean?" might get the answer "It
means 'Hund'" or "It's an animal which is often kept as a pet; it barks".

My attempt: ___ se smuni ma

Commment: I'm not sure how to quote the "___", though -- should it be "zo"
for single words and "zoi ly. ___ .ly." for multiple words? Or always "lo'u
___ le'u"? For example, which of the following would be correct?

(One word)
zo gerku se smuni ma
zoi ly. gerku .ly. se smuni ma
lo'u gerku le'u se smuni ma

(A phrase, not grammatical on its own)
zoi ly. bau la lojban .ly. se smuni ma
lo'u bau la lojban le'u se smuni ma

(Multiple words, together grammatical on their own, but not
a complete sentence)
zoi ly. blanu zdani .ly. se smuni ma
lo'u blanu zdani le'u se smuni ma

(A complete sentence)
zoi ly. mi prami do .ly. se smuni ma
lo'u mi prami do le'u se smuni ma

* "How do you say ___ in <target language>?"
* "What's the word for ___ in <target language>?"

This requests a translation of a word, phrase, or sentence into the target
language.

My attempt: cusku zoi gy. ___ .gy. fo la lojban fi'o jalge ma

Comment: This one was hard, and it's probably the wrong way to express this.
My grammar isn't enough to produce a good version. I'm pretty sure that
"zoi" is the right cmavo here, though, since the "___" will be non-Lojban
text.

Other attempt: ma valsi zoi gy. ___ .gy. la lojban

Comment: Only useful for individual words (or where you think the Lojban
translation will be one word) -- but still.

* What's the difference between [the words/phrases] ___ and ___?"

Useful when two words, phrases, or constructions have similar meanings to
the learner, and he wished to understand which one is used when, or how they
differ in meaning.

My attempt: zo ___ zo ___ frica ma (or lo'u ___ le'u lo'u ___ le'u frica ma)

Comment: This seemed straightforward... there's probably a catch explaining
why this is not a good way of expressing what I want.

mu'omi'e filip.
[email copies appreciated, since I read the digest]
{ko fukpi mrilu .i'o fi mi ki'u le du'u mi te mrilu loi notseljmaji}
-- 
Philip Newton <[email-masked]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.