From pycyn@aol.com Tue Aug 20 08:50:01 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 20 Aug 2002 15:49:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 32578 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2002 15:49:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2002 15:49:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.33) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 15:49:59 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.9.) id r.51.22af034b (4584) for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51.22af034b.2a93bf22@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:49:54 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] memories To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_51.22af034b.2a93bf22_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_51.22af034b.2a93bf22_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/20/2002 9:11:09 AM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: > If {morsi le nu} were taken to mean "remember to do X", > i.e. remember that X is intended to be done and doing it, > then I suppose {djuno le nu} would have to be knowing that > X is intended to be done and doing it, in other words, > doing something intentionally: "I knew to drop the box" = > "I knew what I was doing when I dropped the box". Whoa. There is a difference between knowing that something is to be done and so doing it and doing it intentionally. Doing it intentionally only requires awareness that you are doing it and consciousness that you are not compelled in doing it (in some very loose sense of "compelled"). The correspondent to the {morji le nu} suggested would be the first: knowing something is to be done and doing it for that reason (perhaps among others), a much narrower notion. And that is almost (but not quite) what English "know to" means: knows what is proper in a situation and does it. I am not sure, but I think this is a slightly broader notion, since what is proper in a situation may not be in the normal sense something that is to be done. << doing something intentionally: "I knew to drop the box" = "I knew what I was doing when I dropped the box". That seems to be covered by {zukte}, which suggests something like Pierre's {zukmo'i} for "remember to", though it bothers me to use {morji} as the final element because it is not a du'u but a nu that one remebers to do, so it is more a kind of zukte than a kind of morji. >> That seems to be right (aside from the bit moving from intentions to intentional), and {mojyzu'e} a better word for it: the "what remembered" place of {morji} supplying the purpose place of {zukte}. I suppose a similar version could be made for {djuno}. --part1_51.22af034b.2a93bf22_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/20/2002 9:11:09 AM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:


If {morsi le nu} were taken to mean "remember to do X",
i.e. remember that X is intended to be done and doing it,
then I suppose {djuno le nu} would have to be knowing that
X is intended to be done and doing it, in other words,
doing something intentionally: "I knew to drop the box" =
"I knew what I was doing when I dropped the box".

Whoa.  There is a difference between knowing that something is to be done and so doing it and doing it intentionally.  Doing it intentionally only requires awareness that you are doing it and consciousness that you are not compelled in doing it (in some very loose sense of "compelled").  The correspondent to the {morji le nu} suggested  would be the first: knowing something is to be done and doing it for that reason (perhaps among others), a much narrower notion.  And that is almost (but not quite) what English "know to" means: knows what is proper in a situation and does it.  I am not sure, but I think this is a slightly broader notion, since what is proper in a situation may not be in the normal sense something that is to be done.

<<
doing something intentionally: "I knew to drop the box" =
"I knew what I was doing when I dropped the box". That
seems to be covered by {zukte}, which suggests something
like Pierre's {zukmo'i} for "remember to", though it
bothers me to use {morji} as the final element because
it is not a du'u but a nu that one remebers to do, so
it is more a kind of zukte than a kind of morji.
>>

That seems to be right (aside from the bit moving from intentions to intentional), and {mojyzu'e} a better word for it: the "what remembered" place of {morji} supplying the purpose place of {zukte}.  I suppose a similar version could be made for {djuno}.
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