From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sun Aug 25 08:15:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 25 Aug 2002 15:15:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 90559 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2002 15:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2002 15:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.124) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2002 15:13:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 08:13:38 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.57 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:13:37 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] mlana Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:13:37 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2002 15:13:38.0159 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD0CBFF0:01C24C49] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.57] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la pier cusku di'e > > le bolci cu zunle le kubli mi > > le bolci cu mlana le kubli fo mi > > > > The ball is to the left of the cube (considering the cube as facing me). > >I thought this meant "The ball is to my left of the cube.". That is, if I'm >facing north, the ball is west of the cube, regardless of which way the >cube >is facing, or which way it is from me. No, look at the definition: zunle zul left x1 is to the left/left-hand side of x2 which faces/in-frame-of-reference x3 [also x3 is the standard of orientation for x2] To get the usual meaning in English we need to place the reference point so that the cubes gives its back to us. So: {zunle le kubli lo ragve be le kubli bei mi}, "to the left of the cube as it faces beyond the cube from me". The default x3 for {zunle} and company when x2 doesn't have an inherent front will no doubt be {lo ragve be vo'e bei mi}, which gives the intuitive English meaning. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com