From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Aug 27 12:01:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 27 Aug 2002 19:01:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 47535 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 19:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Aug 2002 19:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 19:00:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17jla7-0001tz-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:00:51 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17jlZS-0001tV-00; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:00:10 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu ([18.7.7.76]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17jlZM-0001tJ-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:00:04 -0700 Received: from grand-central-station.mit.edu (GRAND-CENTRAL-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.82]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA26457 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (MELBOURNE-CITY-STREET.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.86]) by grand-central-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA06972 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torg.mit.edu (TORG.MIT.EDU [18.238.2.215]) by melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA02408 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rob by torg.mit.edu with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17jlZG-0000XN-00 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:59:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:59:58 -0400 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Re: [lojban] translation exercise... Message-ID: <20020827185958.GB1433@mit.edu> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20020827153225.417BD59F94@cube.nefud.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020827153225.417BD59F94@cube.nefud.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Is-It-Not-Nifty: www.sluggy.com X-archive-position: 813 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rspeer@MIT.EDU Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Rob Speer From: Rob Speer Reply-To: rspeer@MIT.EDU X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out First of all, I really like the idea of translating this song. I could start singing it (to people who already know I'm strange) and then they'd have to ask what the heck language that was. On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 08:32:25AM -0700, Allan Bailey wrote: > le selsa'a cu na sisti "The song does not end". For "_This_ is the song that does not end", you would do something like "dei me le selsa'a poi na sisti". (At first I was going to put "ti", but "this" doesn't refer to anything being indicated, but the actual words being sung.) > ri ranji ije ranji noi mi pendo "ri ranji ije ranji" means "It persists, and something persists". For "it persists and persists", you would use "ri ranji _gi'e_ ranji". Then again, I'm not certain that idiom works at all in Lojban. I think "ri ranji cai" (it continues [intense!]) would work better. With "noi" I assume you mean "doi". Though "mi" is glossed as "my", you can't use it like that alone (which is a common gotcha for anyone who has learned, say, Spanish). You need "lemi pendo". > le prenu co'a sanga le selsa'a poi ri na djuno ru For "some people" I would say "lo prenu". "le selsa'a" could be expressed as "sy", and then the whole part "lo prenu co'a sanga sy" actually fits into the song. With the "poi ri na djuno ru", the whole line means "The people start singing the song which doesn't know it". The "poi" should probably be after "prenu", and should be "noi" because it isn't necessary to determine who they are. Of course, this thoroughly mangles the line. > .ije ko'e ke'u sanga le selsa'a "ko'e" hasn't been assigned yet. "ke'u" works here, but it's a modifier that should go after "sanga". And then you need the phrase which makes the song loop around - "ki'u le du'u" would be the most accurate version of "because..." and would fit grammatically with the beginning of the song. Now I've started thinking about how to shuffle words around to make it actually fit the tune. Here's one possible version: dei na'e sisti selsa'a (This is a not-ceasing song.) .ije ri ranji sai za'a (And it continues [intense!], I observe.) [The "my friend" part of the original song is really just there to make it rhyme, so "za'a" can be used for the same purpose.] .i lo prenu co'a sanga sy .i ra na djuno ru (Some people start singing it. They don't know that.) ["la'ede'u" would be more correct than "ru", but there's no way in heck that will fit.] [".i lo" will have to be crammed onto the same note, or the rhythm changed slightly.] .i caku py ci'iroi sanga ki'u le du'u (Now they sing it an infinite number of times because...) Here's the song with the stress and all pauses marked: dei NA'e SISti SELsa'A [SELsa'A is horrible pronunciation. I claim artistic license.] .iJE ri RANji SAI za'A .ilo PREnu CO'a SANga SY .i RA na DJUno RU .i CAku PY. ci'Iroi SANga KI'u LE du'U [The strange accent on "le du'u" is allowed.] Again, I like the idea! .ui! -- mu'o mi'e rab.spir.