From lojbab@lojban.org Tue Aug 27 19:00:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 02:00:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 37562 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 02:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 02:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao02.cox.net) (68.1.17.243) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 02:00:55 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020828020053.TFPG12192.lakemtao02.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:00:53 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020827214658.030d7da0@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: lojbab@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:00:46 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] translation exercise... In-Reply-To: <20020828010353.GA6308@mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020827201816.03150d60@pop.east.cox.net> <20020827153225.417BD59F94@cube.nefud.org> <20020827153225.417BD59F94@cube.nefud.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20020827201816.03150d60@pop.east.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Bob LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab At 09:03 PM 8/27/02 -0400, Rob Speer wrote: >On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 08:26:48PM -0400, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > > To get the rhythm to fit > > dei selsa'a nalsisti > >[...] > > .i doi pendo ri ranji > > or if the vocative is unneeded > > .i ri ci'iroi ranji > > > > Your version below is OK too, but I think mine scans better for the first > > two lines. > >Are you thinking of a different tune than I am? No. >Here's the English lyrics as I know them: > >This is the song that doesn't end >It just goes on and on, my friend > >...so they're both 8 syllables. You have 7 syllables in each of your >lines. I use a syllable-length pause (or drag out the "i" slightly). The English "It just" is the length of a single syllable when I sing it, both unstressed. (The version I know has "And it goes on and...", but same difference). English rhythmic poetry is stress-timed rather than syllable-timed, so when translating English into Lojban, the important thing is to match the metric feet, not the syllable count. The following is how I scan the rhythm of the song in feet. The number of unstressed syllables before the first stress can vary without any problem (though it seems to sound better with at least 3 for the last two lines), and in general extra unstressed syllables do not mess up rhythm either (which is good because Lojban generally requires more syllables than English to express the same concept). ---!-!-! ---!-!-! ---!-!-!-!-!-! ---!-!-!-!-!-! lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org