From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Aug 31 13:15:07 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 31 Aug 2002 20:15:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 32173 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 20:15:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2002 20:15:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 20:15:07 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17lEeB-0007EY-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:15:07 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17lEdV-0007DM-00; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:14:25 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miranda.org ([209.58.150.153] ident=qmailr) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17lEdQ-0007DD-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:14:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 19885 invoked by uid 534); 31 Aug 2002 20:14:18 -0000 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:14:18 -0600 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Re: [lojban] dictionary - which words? Message-ID: <20020831141418.I30502@miranda.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020830094058.0331a8f0@pop.east.cox.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020831154843.031245f0@pop.east.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020831154843.031245f0@pop.east.cox.net>; from lojbab@lojban.org on Sat, Aug 31, 2002 at 03:55:22PM -0400 X-archive-position: 871 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jkominek@miranda.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jay F Kominek From: Jay F Kominek Reply-To: jkominek@miranda.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Sat, Aug 31, 2002 at 03:55:22PM -0400, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > > then to include them in > >the dictionary would just perpetuate the spurious and insidious notion > >that these are in some way distinct from sequences of cmavo written > >without a space. That notion already contaminates the ma'oste, and > >should be knocked on the head, not reinforced. > > You would have a descriptivist ignore actual usage? %^) > > It is not that they are in some way distinct, it is that they have a > specific translation to English (or some other target language). And vice versa. "sadness" should not be omitted from the dictionary merely because it does not correspond to a single word. > I did not say how they would be listed in the dictionary. It seems to me > that they should be listed in both forms, as actually used, and as separate > words, since as you say they both mean the same thing. > > Perhaps: > > semau: se mau: less than (grammatical conversion of mau) > mau: more than; see also semau I would simply omit the spaceless version, but sort it so that "se mau" appears where "semau" would be. (And, I suppose, where you'd expect to find it with the space in there.) Further, it seems like a poor idea to try and use the dictionary to correct a failing of the pedagogical process. Teach people how words break apart properly, and this is a nonconcern. -- Jay Kominek